X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: johnbpc@clyde.its.unimelb.edu.au X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0 Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 12:02:49 +1000 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: John Cain Subject: [MapHist] Australian Map Circle 2003 Conference Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 ((Apologies for cross postings)) The 31st Annual Conference of the Australian Map Circle will be held at Macquarie University, Sydney, Australia, from 2-5 August 2003. More information is now available by viewing the INVITATION TO PARTICIPATE on the AMC website: http://australianmapcircle.org.au/ (just look under "2003 Conference") John Cain President - Australian Map Circle j.cain@unimelb.edu.au phone: +61-3-8344 8416 (bh) fax: +61-3-9347 0974 http://australianmapcircle.org.au Postal: Australian Map Circle, c/o Geography Department, The University of Melbourne, 3010, AUSTRALIA. _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: krogt@pop.geog.uu.nl X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 09:45:54 +0200 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl (by way of Peter van der Krogt ) Subject: [MapHist] Query: detailed WWII maps, Germany - what maps were the troops using at the time? Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Non-member submission from ["Russell, Mark Mr." ] Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 10:17:37 -1000 Hi there, A question for you folks: I've been meandering through the web for quite some time now attempting to locate a few maps relevant to movements of US ground forces in Germany during WWII. There are some great maps reconstructed from unit battle records in the "U.S. Army in WWII" series published by the Center of Military History, US Army. There are also some maps published in WWII historical reference books (e.g., Weingbergs "A World At Arms"). However, the coverage of these maps is spotty, and often deals with division-level movements of troops, rather than the more detailed movements of individual regiments and battalions on specific days/weeks. I'm interested in any resources you folks could point me toward that might contain indexes of such maps, or even strategies you could suggest for tracking down such resources. Online resources would be nice, but I'd also like to hear about other collections. Most specifically, however, I'd like to find maps relevant to the movement of US forces in the battle for Hurtgen Forest, Germany (i.e, Huertgenwald), during the Fall of 1944. There's a ton of map information available for the Battle of the Bulge, and it leads me to wonder if there might also be a hefty stack of maps somewhere for this battle of similar significance. I have access to a vast archive of military records, but being the military, they do odd things sometimes, like separate their battle records from the maps they refer to. I'm trying to track down any information I can get that I might use to figure out which maps the troops and planners were using at the time of the battle. Thanks for your help. Cheers, -mark OoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoO Mark C. Russell Historian / Analyst Central Identification Laboratory, Hawaii russellm@cilhi.army.mil _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: jsk@pop.gamewood.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2002 18:01:13 -0400 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: Joel Kovarsky Subject: Re: [MapHist] Query: detailed WWII maps, Germany - what maps were the troops using at the time? Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 At 02:04 PM 8/1/2002 -0500, you wrote:
However, the coverage of these
> maps is spotty, and often deals with division-level movements of
> troops, rather than the more detailed movements of individual
> regiments and battalions on specific days/weeks.
>


While a general site, also see the Air University reference list (for Air Force) at:
<http://www.maxwell.af.mil/au/aul/maps/ww2maps.htm>.  Most of these references are likely not as specific as queried, but perhaps they'll direct you to other resources.

           Joel Kovarsky

X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: krogt@pop.geog.uu.nl X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 11:53:48 +0200 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl (by way of Peter van der Krogt ) Subject: [MapHist] The Vinland map and logic Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Non-member submission from ["Margriet Hoogvliet" ] The discussion on the Vinland map is too much centered around questions of authenticity, and the scientific examination of the ink gives a false impression of reliability. What do we actually have if the map proves to be a genuine 15th century production? Let us use some human logic. The newspaper articles (even here in the Netherlands!) make much noise about pre-Columbian discoveries. At the basis of this is a rather simplistic assumption. This is Hypothesis 1: During their voyages to the seas and lands west of Greenland in the 10th century, Leif Erikson and Bjarni Herjolfsson made maps of Markland and Vinland. A 15th century cartographer copied these maps on what we now call the Vinland map. This is simply not possible: - the cartographic technique of the Vinland map is related to and influenced by portulan maps, which did not exist in the 10th century. (Actually, I have never heared of any cartographic activities by the Vikings). - the voyages by Leif and Bjarni were first oral sagas which were later written down in manuscripts. The oldest manuscripts surviving today date from the 12th and 13th centuries - 200-300 years later! We know that the Vikings made it to the north of the Americas, but it is very well possible that Leif and Bjarni are legendary persons. - the manuscript tradition has not one single trace of a cartographic record made by Leif and Bjarni. Hypothesis 2 is much more logical than hypothesis 1: A fifteenth century cartographer made a world map based on several sources: nautical maps by Andrea Bianco, and in one way or another he had also acces to a source with the stories of the voyages of Leif, Bjarni and bishop Eirik. Based on this source he inscribed an island to the west of Greenland. By accident the shape of this island could be interpreted (with much help of fantasy) as the estuary of the Hudson. It is not amazing that he decided to draw an island only based on textual sources, because he inscribed more non-existing islands in the Atlantic ocean. Even if the Vinland map is from the 15th century, it can never be proved that the map is a copy of a map made by the Vikings in the 10th century. We don't have to get excited over pre-Columbian discoveries on the map, either: there is much more other (and more reliable) evidence that the Vikings sailed to the American continent long before Columbus did. Margriet Hoogvliet _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: jenterli/pop3.concentric.net@pop3.norton.antivirus X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 12:11:20 -0400 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: James Enterline Subject: Re: [MapHist] The Vinland map and logic Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Margriet Hoogvliet has made a very cogent commentary on possible origins of the Vinland Map. She (and others who agree) would be interested in my treatment of this question in Chapter 4 of my new book, which is the same as the paper I presented at the recent SHD conference. See http://www.press.jhu.edu/press/books/titles/s02/s02ener.htm Incidentally, I have just found out that this book is now the No. 6 bestseller in Barnes & Noble's category "America: Discovery and Exploration." Jim. At 11:53 AM 08/01/02 +0200, you wrote: >Non-member submission from ["Margriet Hoogvliet" ] > > >The discussion on the Vinland map is too much centered around questions of >authenticity, and the scientific examination of the ink gives a false >impression of reliability. What do we actually have if the map proves to be >a genuine 15th century production? Let us use some human logic. > >The newspaper articles (even here in the Netherlands!) make much noise about >pre-Columbian discoveries. At the basis of this is a rather simplistic >assumption. This is Hypothesis 1: >During their voyages to the seas and lands west of Greenland in the 10th >century, Leif Erikson and Bjarni Herjolfsson made maps of Markland and >Vinland. A 15th century cartographer copied these maps on what we now call >the Vinland map. > >This is simply not possible: >- the cartographic technique of the Vinland map is related to and influenced >by portulan maps, which did not exist in the 10th century. (Actually, I have >never heared of any cartographic activities by the Vikings). >- the voyages by Leif and Bjarni were first oral sagas which were later >written down in manuscripts. The oldest manuscripts surviving today date >from the 12th and 13th centuries - 200-300 years later! We know that the >Vikings made it to the north of the Americas, but it is very well possible >that Leif and Bjarni are legendary persons. >- the manuscript tradition has not one single trace of a cartographic >record made by Leif and Bjarni. > >Hypothesis 2 is much more logical than hypothesis 1: >A fifteenth century cartographer made a world map based on several sources: >nautical maps by Andrea Bianco, and in one way or another he had also acces >to a source with the stories of the voyages of Leif, Bjarni and bishop >Eirik. Based on this source he inscribed an island to the west of Greenland. >By accident the shape of this island could be interpreted (with much help of >fantasy) as the estuary of the Hudson. It is not amazing that he decided to >draw an island only based on textual sources, because he inscribed more >non-existing islands in the Atlantic ocean. > >Even if the Vinland map is from the 15th century, it can never be proved >that the map is a copy of a map made by the Vikings in the 10th century. We >don't have to get excited over pre-Columbian discoveries on the map, either: >there is much more other (and more reliable) evidence that the Vikings >sailed to the American continent long before Columbus did. > >Margriet Hoogvliet _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 13:19:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Donald Mcguirk To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: Re: [MapHist] Query: detailed WWII maps, Germany - what maps were the troops using at the time? Cc: RussellM@CILHI.Army.Mil Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Mark, From your email address I assume you have already tried the library at Command and General Staff College, Ft. Leavenworth, KS. The Army War College in Carlisle Barracks, PA also has a Library which might have some holdings of interest. The Library of Congress did a reference book on the maps of World War One, but unfortunately, to my knowledge, never did one for World War II. The library did do a small reference book, "The Largest Event, a Library of Congress Guide for the Study of World War II (Rohrbach, Peter)", which might have some information for you. There are 4 popular books on the battle of Hurtgen Forest, each with a few maps. I'm sure you are aware of these. Although I have not read it, John Keegan's "Atlas of the Second World War", may have some maps in regard to Hurtgen Forest. Finally, if you have not done so, the following web site has three maps of Hurtgen, www.student.oulu.fi/~psaastam/ . Good luck on your search. Don McGuirk, map collector and Col. USAR Ret. ------------------ Reply Separator -------------------- Originally From: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl (by way of Peter van der Krogt ) Subject: [MapHist] Query: detailed WWII maps, Germany - what maps were the troops using at the time? Date: 08/01/2002 09:45am Non-member submission from ["Russell, Mark Mr." ] Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 10:17:37 -1000 Hi there, A question for you folks: I've been meandering through the web for quite some time now attempting to locate a few maps relevant to movements of US ground forces in Germany during WWII. There are some great maps reconstructed from unit battle records in the "U.S. Army in WWII" series published by the Center of Military History, US Army. There are also some maps published in WWII historical reference books (e.g., Weingbergs "A World At Arms"). However, the coverage of these maps is spotty, and often deals with division-level movements of troops, rather than the more detailed movements of individual regiments and battalions on specific days/weeks. I'm interested in any resources you folks could point me toward that might contain indexes of such maps, or even strategies you could suggest for tracking down such resources. Online resources would be nice, but I'd also like to hear about other collections. Most specifically, however, I'd like to find maps relevant to the movement of US forces in the battle for Hurtgen Forest, Germany (i.e, Huertgenwald), during the Fall of 1944. There's a ton of map information available for the Battle of the Bulge, and it leads me to wonder if there might also be a hefty stack of maps somewhere for this battle of similar significance. I have access to a vast archive of military records, but being the military, they do odd things sometimes, like separate their battle records from the maps they refer to. I'm trying to track down any information I can get that I might use to figure out which maps the troops and planners were using at the time of the battle. Thanks for your help. Cheers, -mark OoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoO Mark C. Russell Historian / Analyst Central Identification Laboratory, Hawaii russellm@cilhi.army.mil _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: maphist@mail.maphist.nl X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 19:45:49 +0200 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: Peter van der Krogt Subject: [MapHist] Columbus, Cook & Co - Exhition in Emden (Germany) X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by pop.geog.uu.nl id TAA18827 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Dear all, I was asked to forward this exhibition announcement to the list. For those who don't read German. The exhibition "Columbus, Cook & Co, Nautical instruments, charts and travels from five centuries" will be in the Johannes a Lasco Library in Emden (Germany, north-western part) from 8 August to 22 September 2002. Peter -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o Ausstellungsankündigung "Columbus, Cook & Co." Nautische Instrumente, Seekarten und Reisebeschreibungen aus fünf Jahrhunderten Ausstellung in der Johannes a Lasco Bibliothek Emden 8.August - 22. September 2002 Wie fand Columbus nach der Entdeckung Amerikas den Rückweg nach Spanien? Welche Karten kannte Magellan vor seiner Weltumsegelung? Wie navigierten die Schiffe der Ostindischen Handelskompanien? Mit welchen Instrumenten konnte Cook die geographische Lage von Tahiti ermitteln? Wie gelang Amundsen die Durchquerung der Nordwestpassage? Die Geschichte der großen Entdeckungen ist zugleich eine Geschichte der Seefahrt. Seit dem 15. Jahrhundert erlebte die Kunst der Navigation einen enormen Aufschwung. Zahlreiche nautische Instrumente wurden erfunden oder verbessert. Die Entdeckungen des 16. Jahrhunderts ließen ein neues Weltbild entstehen, das sich auf Land- und Seekarten niederschlug. Mit neuen astronomischen Tabellen, genaueren Karten und Instrumenten ausgestattet, kontrollierten die Schiffe der großen Handelskompanien im 17. Jahrhundert die Seewege nach Ostasien. Expeditionen wurden im 18. und 19. Jahrhundert in die Südsee und die Polarmeere entsandt, um die letzten weißen Flecken auf der Weltkarte zu tilgen. Die Ausstellung "Columbus, Cook & Co." beleuchtet diese Zusammenhänge zwischen der Entdeckung und Erforschung unseres Globus und der Erkundung der Weltmeere. Gezeigt werden über einhundert Exponate, darunter allein 47 historische nautische Instrumente und zahlreiche Seekarten aus Privatbesitz. Alte Seehandbücher, Atlanten und Reisebeschreibungen aus den Sammlungen der Johannes a Lasco Bibliothek machen die Besucher mit den Fahrten berühmter Entdecker, aber auch einfacher Seeleute bekannt. Informationstafeln erläutern anschaulich die Orientierung auf See in früheren Zeiten und führen in die geschichtlichen Hintergründe ein. Ein reich bebilderter Katalog (15 €) lädt zur vertiefenden Lektüre ein, und auch für die Unterhaltung der kleinen Besucher ist gesorgt. Die Ausstellung wird am Donnerstag, dem 8. August 2002, um 19.30 Uhr durch Dr. Peter van der Krogt, Utrecht, eröffnet. Die Ausstellung wird unterstützt von der Sparkasse Emden, der VGH, der Landschaftlichen Ostfriesischen Brandkasse und der Emder Schlepp-Betrieb GmbH. Öffnungszeiten Di - Fr 11 - 18 Uhr, Sa 11 - 13.30 Uhr und 14.30 - 17 Uhr, So 14.30 - 17 Uhr Montag sowie am 12./13.9. und 19./20.9. geschlossen. Bestellungen für den Katalog (€15.- + Porto) unter lasco@jalb.de Gruppenführungen nach telefonischer Voranmeldung 0049 (0)4921/9150-0 Adresse Stiftung Johannes a Lasco Bibliothek Große Kirche Emden Kirchstr. 22, 26721 Emden Tel. 0049 (0)4921/9150-0, Fax 0049 (0)4921/9150-50 Email lasco@jalb.de, Internet http://www.jalb.de _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: ahudson@NYPL.ORG Subject: Re: [MapHist] Query: detailed WWII maps, Germany - what maps were the troops using at the time? To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Cc: maphist@geog.uu.nl, owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.4 June 8, 2000 Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 14:12:05 -0400 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on MHTMAIL02/MHT/Nypl(Release 5.0.10 |March 22, 2002) at 08/01/2002 02:12:38 PM Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 We just had a reader in recently who has been buying this stuff off EBay. I donot know how that works, but tht is what he told us... Alice C. Hudson Chief, Map Division The Humanities and Social Sciences Library The New York Public Library 5th Avenue & 42nd Street, Room 117 New York, NY 10018-2788 ahudson@nypl.org; 212-930-0589; fax 212-930-0027 http://nypl.org/research/chss/map/map.html _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 5.5.7.1 Beta Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 14:59:28 -0400 From: "Edward James Redmond" To: Subject: Re: [MapHist] Query: detailed WWII maps, Germany - what maps were the troops using at the time? Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 We have recently added a series of daily situation maps prepared by the Twelth Army Group to our websiute te. Currnently we have coverage from the Normandy invasion (June 6 , 1944) to the Battle of the Bulge (late December, 1944) and additional maps through occupation be added. 1) go to http://lcweb2.loc.gov/ammem/gmdhtml/gmdhome.html 2) choose the "Military Battles and Campaigns" link http://lcweb2.loc.gov/ammem/gmdhtml/milhome.html 3) choose the "Addiitional Military Maps" link http://lcweb2.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/S?ammem/gmd:@filreq(@field(COLLID+milmap)+@field(COLLID+ct)) and choose the "Gallery View" - see the first item. Edward Redmond Reference Specialist Geography and Map Division Library of Congress 101 Independence Ave, SE Washington, DC 20540-4650 (202) 606-8548 ered@loc.gov >>> gcarhart@usm.maine.edu 08/01/02 03:04PM >>> Mark unfortunately the maps that you want generally no longer exist. Battalion and to a greater extent Company level maps were destroyed after they were used. Maps made good fire starting material or in the winter good insulation for the boots. Those that have survived can be found at unit museums. When I was in the army I worked for the Third Armored Div. Museum and they had the division level Maps showing the broad movement of the division and at which three star hotels Div. HQ stopped at. But other than one or two battalion level maps there were surprisingly few other maps that had survived time. So here are a few suggestions that you can try: The US Military History Institute Library (717) 245-4354 or the unit museums of the units that were engaged in the part of Germany you are looking at. This is if they still exist. Otherwise the US army archives { GOTOBUTTON BM_1_ http://www.army.mil/cmhpg/lineage/fpo.htm} may be of help George On 1 Aug 2002, at 9:45, by way of Peter van der Krogt wrote: > Non-member submission from ["Russell, Mark Mr." > ] > > Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 10:17:37 -1000 > > Hi there, > > A question for you folks: I've been meandering through the web for > quite some time now attempting to locate a few maps relevant to > movements of US ground forces in Germany during WWII. There are some > great maps reconstructed from unit battle records in the "U.S. Army in > WWII" series published by the Center of Military History, US Army. > There are also some maps published in WWII historical reference books > (e.g., Weingbergs "A World At Arms"). However, the coverage of these > maps is spotty, and often deals with division-level movements of > troops, rather than the more detailed movements of individual > regiments and battalions on specific days/weeks. > > I'm interested in any resources you folks could point me toward that > might contain indexes of such maps, or even strategies you could > suggest for tracking down such resources. Online resources would be > nice, but I'd also like to hear about other collections. > > Most specifically, however, I'd like to find maps relevant to the > movement of US forces in the battle for Hurtgen Forest, Germany (i.e, > Huertgenwald), during the Fall of 1944. There's a ton of map > information available for the Battle of the Bulge, and it leads me to > wonder if there might also be a hefty stack of maps somewhere for this > battle of similar significance. I have access to a vast archive of > military records, but being the military, they do odd things > sometimes, like separate their battle records from the maps they refer > to. I'm trying to track down any information I can get that I might > use to figure out which maps the troops and planners were using at the > time of the battle. > > Thanks for your help. > > Cheers, > -mark > > OoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoO > Mark C. Russell > Historian / Analyst > Central Identification Laboratory, Hawaii > russellm@cilhi.army.mil > > _______________________________________________________________ > MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography > hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. > The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the > author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of > Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility > for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl George S. Carhart Cartographic Associate Osher Map Library Smith Center for Cartographic Education University of Southern Maine P.O. Box 9301 Portland, Maine 04104-9301 USA (207) 780-4910 gcarhart@usm.maine.edu _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: "George S. Carhart" Organization: University of Southern Maine To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 14:04:49 -0500 Subject: Re: [MapHist] Query: detailed WWII maps, Germany - what maps were the troops using at the time? X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Mark unfortunately the maps that you want generally no longer exist. Battalion and to a greater extent Company level maps were destroyed after they were used. Maps made good fire starting material or in the winter good insulation for the boots. Those that have survived can be found at unit museums. When I was in the army I worked for the Third Armored Div. Museum and they had the division level Maps showing the broad movement of the division and at which three star hotels Div. HQ stopped at. But other than one or two battalion level maps there were surprisingly few other maps that had survived time. So here are a few suggestions that you can try: The US Military History Institute Library (717) 245-4354 or the unit museums of the units that were engaged in the part of Germany you are looking at. This is if they still exist. Otherwise the US army archives { GOTOBUTTON BM_1_ http://www.army.mil/cmhpg/lineage/fpo.htm} may be of help George On 1 Aug 2002, at 9:45, by way of Peter van der Krogt wrote: > Non-member submission from ["Russell, Mark Mr." > ] > > Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 10:17:37 -1000 > > Hi there, > > A question for you folks: I've been meandering through the web for > quite some time now attempting to locate a few maps relevant to > movements of US ground forces in Germany during WWII. There are some > great maps reconstructed from unit battle records in the "U.S. Army in > WWII" series published by the Center of Military History, US Army. > There are also some maps published in WWII historical reference books > (e.g., Weingbergs "A World At Arms"). However, the coverage of these > maps is spotty, and often deals with division-level movements of > troops, rather than the more detailed movements of individual > regiments and battalions on specific days/weeks. > > I'm interested in any resources you folks could point me toward that > might contain indexes of such maps, or even strategies you could > suggest for tracking down such resources. Online resources would be > nice, but I'd also like to hear about other collections. > > Most specifically, however, I'd like to find maps relevant to the > movement of US forces in the battle for Hurtgen Forest, Germany (i.e, > Huertgenwald), during the Fall of 1944. There's a ton of map > information available for the Battle of the Bulge, and it leads me to > wonder if there might also be a hefty stack of maps somewhere for this > battle of similar significance. I have access to a vast archive of > military records, but being the military, they do odd things > sometimes, like separate their battle records from the maps they refer > to. I'm trying to track down any information I can get that I might > use to figure out which maps the troops and planners were using at the > time of the battle. > > Thanks for your help. > > Cheers, > -mark > > OoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoO > Mark C. Russell > Historian / Analyst > Central Identification Laboratory, Hawaii > russellm@cilhi.army.mil > > _______________________________________________________________ > MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography > hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. > The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the > author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of > Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility > for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl George S. Carhart Cartographic Associate Osher Map Library Smith Center for Cartographic Education University of Southern Maine P.O. Box 9301 Portland, Maine 04104-9301 USA (207) 780-4910 gcarhart@usm.maine.edu _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: jdocktor@cyberia.com@pop.onemain.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 18:05:44 -0400 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: "John W. Docktor" Subject: Re: [MapHist] Australian Map Circle 2003 Conference Cc: j.cain@unimelb.edu.au Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 >The 31st Annual Conference of the Australian Map Circle will be held at >Macquarie University, Sydney, Australia, from 2-5 August 2003. What is the correct date for this conference? The e-mail message says 2-5 August 2003, but the web page http://australianmapcircle.org.au/amc2003/index.html reads 2-5 February 2003. Is the meeting in February or August? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- John W. Docktor Phone: 717-846-8997 Fax: 717-845-9337 jdocktor@cyberia.com Cartography - Calendars of Events & Exhibitions: http://www.docktor.com/ Washington Map Society: http://www.washmap.org/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: jdocktor@cyberia.com@pop.onemain.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 19:15:05 -0400 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: "John W. Docktor" Subject: Re: [MapHist] Query: detailed WWII maps, Germany - what maps were the troops using at the time? Cc: russellm@cilhi.army.mil Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 > From your email address I assume you have already tried the >library at Command and General Staff College, Ft. Leavenworth, KS. >The Army War College in Carlisle Barracks, PA also has a Library >which might have some holdings of interest. The U.S. Army Military History Institute (http://carlisle-www.army.mil/usamhi/) at the Army War College in Carlisle PA does have a very large collection of WWII maps (http://carlisle-www.army.mil/usamhi/1collectionoverview.html#Maps). The widows and families of many deceased senior officers have been donating the officers' personal papers, which include hundreds of battlefield maps, to the History Institute. They are not catalogued. They reside in map file drawers labelled by country and locale. The director when I was there last year was Dennis Vetock, tel 717-245-4139, fax 717-245-3711, dennis.vetock@carlisle.army.mil ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- John W. Docktor Phone: 717-846-8997 Fax: 717-845-9337 jdocktor@cyberia.com Cartography - Calendars of Events & Exhibitions: http://www.docktor.com/ Washington Map Society: http://www.washmap.org/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: johnbpc@clyde.its.unimelb.edu.au X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0 Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 09:48:51 +1000 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: John Cain Subject: [MapHist] Fwd: Australian Map Circle 2003 Conference - CORRECT DATES Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 My apologies, please note that the correct dates for the 2003 Australian Map Circle Conference are 2-5 FEBRUARY 2003. John Cain >Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 12:02:49 +1000 >To: maphist@geog.uu.nl >From: John Cain >Subject: Australian Map Circle 2003 Conference > >The 31st Annual Conference of the Australian Map Circle will be held at >Macquarie University, Sydney, Australia, from 2-5 August 2003. > >More information is now available by viewing the INVITATION TO PARTICIPATE >on the AMC website: > >http://australianmapcircle.org.au/ > >(just look under "2003 Conference") John Cain President - Australian Map Circle j.cain@unimelb.edu.au phone: +61-3-8344 8416 (bh) fax: +61-3-9347 0974 http://australianmapcircle.org.au Postal: Australian Map Circle, c/o Geography Department, The University of Melbourne, 3010, AUSTRALIA. _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: maphist@mail.maphist.nl X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 10:33:37 +0200 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl (by way of Peter van der Krogt ) Subject: [MapHist] Millo and portolani e isolari at Museo Correr Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Non-member submission from ["Piero Lucchi" ] Some informations about Antonio Millo and his portolan can be founded in = the catalogue of the Exhibition now at the Museum Correr in Venice = "Navigare e descrivere". The catalogue (Navigare e descrivere. Isolari e portolani del Museo = Correr XV -XVIII secolo, a cura di Camillo Tonini e Piero Lucchi, = Venezia, Marsilio editori, 2001) includes an essay written by Georgios = Tolias and some pictures of the portolan charts of Millo. The Correr's exhibition (which includes a rich and precious selection of = ancient maps, manuscripts and printed books conserved at Correr Museum's = library) opened 1 Dicember 2001and will close the 15 September 2002 ( = every day, from 9 a.m. to 17,30 p.m.). Piero Lucchi Biblioteca del Museo Correr, San Marco 52, 30124 - Venezia e-mail biblioteca.correr@comune.venezia.it libro.antico@comune.venezia.it YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY Dr Peter van der Krogt Map Historian, Explokart Research Program Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht P.O. Box 80.115 3508 TC UTRECHT, The Netherlands e-mail: peter@maphist.nl Homepage: MapHist: Genealogy: Elementymology: Columbus Monuments: YYYYYYYYYYYYYYY PER ANGUSTA AD AUGUSTA YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: "tony campbell" To: "*MapHist" , "*Lismaps" Subject: [MapHist] Article on map thefts Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 13:55:13 +0100 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 There is a short article on map thefts by Michael A Gips, in the current issue of Security Management, entitled 'Track the Ripper'. Conveniently, it is one of the elements to be mounted online: < http://www.securitymanagement.com/library/001288.html >. Tony Campbell t.campbell@ockendon.clara.co.uk _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: "Rodney Shirley" To: Subject: Re: [MapHist] Re: Antonio Millo Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 14:47:08 +0100 Organization: UUNET X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Sebastian Bykuc (et al) The British Library has two isolario atlases by Millo covering the Mediterranean islands, one dated 1586 with 68 uncoloured charts and the other 1591 with 71. The BL also has a very large portolan chart of the world by him. Millo was supposedly born on the Greek island of Milos. You may wish to question therefore whether he felt he was Greek (or Turkish?) by birth or (more likely) considered himself a Venetian. I commend the reference work cited by Dimitri Loupis. Rodney Shirley rws@dial.pipex.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hugo Stibbe" To: Sent: 31 July 2002 16:03 Subject: [MapHist] Re: Antonio Millo > Sebastian, > I found this Web page which I think is in Greek. I do not know if it is > relevant because I do not read Greek, but it seems to be. > http://www.chioscity.gr/home/gen_shmeio.htm > > The following text in German, which I do read, also has something: > Millo > Portolanatlas > Der venezianische Kartograph Antonio Millo schuf 1568 einen Atlas mit 14 > doppelseitigen Karten der Alten und Neuen Welt. Neben detailreich erstellten > Karten europäischer Länder finden sich auch Karten des nord- und > mittel-amerikanischen Kontinents, Südamerikas, Afrikas und Asiens. > Über den venezianischen Kartenmacher Antonio Millo ist wenig bekannt. Er ist > in Venedig zwischen 1580 und 1590 durch seine signierten Karten > nachgewiesen. Das Original der hier ausgestellten Faksimile-Ausgabe wird > heute in der Staatsbibliothek Preußischer Kulturbesitz in Berlin aufbewahrt. > Das Faksimile ist 1988 in der Edition Deuschle erschienen > > Found it on URL > http://www.schloss-hopferau-gmbh.de/deutsch/kunst/faksmile.html > > There does not seem much information on the man himself but plenty on his > atlas. > > Hugo Stibbe > Ottawa > Canada > E-mail: hugo.stibbe@rogers.com > Phone: (613) 746-0008 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sebastian Bykuc" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 7:48 AM > > > > Hello, > > I'm looking for any information about Italian cartographer Antonio Millo > > from 16 century.Does anyone knows some sources that i could use? I did not > > find almost anything about him yet on the internet and at the libraries. > > Any help will be appreciated. Thanks in advance > > sebastian > > _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 5.5.6.1 Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 14:35:49 -0400 From: "James Findlay" To: Subject: [MapHist] Florida antique map exhibition and publication X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by pop.geog.uu.nl id UAA08805 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Broward County Libraries Division (Ft. Lauderdale, Florida, USA) Bienes Center for the Literary Arts, The Dianne & Michael Bienes Special Collections and Rare Book Library announces the web exhibit (www.broward.org/bienes) and print publication of: Florida, the Making of a State: a Cartographic Adventure, Jan. 17-March 28, 2002 / edited by James A. Findlay... - 1st edition. - Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA: Bienes Center for the Literary Arts, 2002. - Perfect bound - 96 p.: col. & b&w ills.; 23 x 20.5 cm - (ISBN: 0967885841). [Includes: Acknowledgements; Introduction; "Marvellous countries and lands": Notable Maps of Florida, 1507-1846 by Ralph Ehrenberg; Who Discovered Florida? by William Straight; Historical Dates Concerning Florida; The Gulf Stream by James C. Hobbs; America by Joseph H. Fitzgerald; Collecting Old Maps byJoseph R. Rubini; Map Printing Methods by Joseph H. Fitzgerald; Latitute and Longitude by Ted Andros; Exhibition Checklist; Glossary; Bibliography; Exhibition Checklist Indexes (Personal Name Index; Publisher and other Corporate Name Index; Title Index); Colophon] To order a copy of the printed exhibition catalog, send a check or money order for $20.00 (includes shipping & handling), payable to the Bienes Center for the Literary Arts, to the address below. (Institutions will be billed) James A. Findlay Broward County Main Library Bienes Center for the Literary Arts The Dianne & Michael Bienes Special Collections and Rare Book Library 100 S. Andrews Ave. Ft. Lauderdale, FL 33301 954-357-8692 (voice) 954-357-6762 (fax) jfindlay@browardlibrary.org (e-mail) www.broward.org/bienes Broward County Libraries Division (A Service of the Broward County Board of County Commissioners) ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ********************************************************************** _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2002 15:00:56 -0700 From: "James C. Jeffery III" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: Re: [MapHist] library or museum of travel Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Hi my name is Jim jeffery and I have been noting your frequent input to the subject of maps and among other things dear to my heart good beers. But that aside if you find the answer to your question would you let me know. My connection to the subject is I am professionally a Traffic engineer who is interested in (at least the past 100 years) travel, roads, etc. there are people who collect road maps and tour guides (as I do somewhat), but I am not aware of the history of travel/tourism. best wishes, Jim jeffery ahudson@NYPL.ORG wrote: > > Does anyone know of a museum or library collecting info on the history of > travel and tourism? > Google was no help. > > Alice C. Hudson > Chief, Map Division > The Humanities and Social Sciences Library > The New York Public Library > 5th Avenue & 42nd Street, Room 117 > New York, NY 10018-2788 > > ahudson@nypl.org; 212-930-0589; fax 212-930-0027 > > http://nypl.org/research/chss/map/map.html > > _______________________________________________________________ > MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography > hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. > The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of > the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of > Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for > the views of the author. > List Information: http://www.maphist.nl _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: ahudson@NYPL.ORG Subject: Re: [MapHist] library or museum of travel To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.4 June 8, 2000 Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 19:54:56 -0400 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on MHTMAIL02/MHT/Nypl(Release 5.0.10 |March 22, 2002) at 08/03/2002 07:55:35 PM Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 So far, no luck. The Newberry Library in Chicago has fab stuff on roadmaps. Harvard is about to do an exhibit on same. The best overalll book is Dunbar's History of Travel in America, long out of print, but available in a one volume version. A great read. You can histories of individual types of travel by stagecoach, by train, by ship, by whatever, but the overall topic I guess is too broad for any one institution. Too bad. We will just keep sorting and try to get the stuff to other institutiions in a topical way, or by country involved. Thanks for your interest, and if I find success, I will post it! Alice H. Alice C. Hudson Chief, Map Division The Humanities and Social Sciences Library The New York Public Library 5th Avenue & 42nd Street, Room 117 New York, NY 10018-2788 ahudson@nypl.org; 212-930-0589; fax 212-930-0027 http://nypl.org/research/chss/map/map.html _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: "Al Magary" To: Subject: Re: [MapHist] library or museum of travel Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 18:44:00 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 > So far, no luck. .... > but the overall > topic I guess is too broad for any one institution. Too bad. We will just > keep sorting and try to get the stuff to other institutiions in a topical > way, or by country involved. Gosh, isn't there some zillionaire from the airline industry or cruise ship industry who would put money into founding the [Your Name Here] Travel and Tourism Collection at the main library in some world destination, like Pocatello or New York City? Al Magary _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: sphinx@camouflagetown.tv X-Sent: 4 Aug 2002 03:10:33 GMT To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: [MapHist] seeking 11th-12th century maps X-Sent-From: sphinx@camouflagetown.tv Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2002 20:10:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: Web Mail 5.0.11-9 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Dear Maphist: For an art project out of the University of Southern California: a colleague is seeking access to good reproductions of 11th or 12th century maps that depict Jerusalem as the center of the world. Can anyone suggest any and indicate whom he can contact to get images? Thank you. Adrianne Wortzel _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2002 23:16:10 -0400 From: "William C. Barrow" Subject: Re: [MapHist] library or museum of travel To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Organization: Cleveland State University X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 OK, you all have shamed me into it. My family was heavily involved in the local inventive travel business in Cleveland for decades, but I've pretty much ignored it from a historical perspective. Guess I'll have to make sure something is documented before the local travel agencies vanish completely. Meanwhile, I'd imagine that the travel industry is a combination of local visitor and convention bureaus, destination managers, bus and taxi companies, restaurants, theme parks, AAA, RV courts, hotel chains, casinos, golf courses, the airline, train and steamship industries and U.S. national parks -- not to mention the foreign destinations -- so it would be awfully hard to get ones arms around the subject from any one location. Most of the travel agency stuff consists of tons of old ticket records, name badges, tour booklets, posters and routine financial records, so what you'd want would be the oral histories of people in the industry, descriptions of the types of trips people took (think millions of "slides of our vacation") and perhaps the statistics on travel, which leads us back to the major transportation industries. Do Carnival Cruises, Westin Hotels, Disneyland and United Airlines maintain corporate archives? Anyone saving ATA reports or Amtrak statistics? Just some thoughts from someone who spent his tender years stuffing hundreds of name badges in travel kit packets. Bill Barrow WILLIAM C. BARROW Special Collections Librarian Cleveland State University Library 2121 Euclid Avenue Cleveland, OH 44115 (216) 687-6998 (office) (216) 687-2449 (Special Collections) (216) 687-9328 (fax) w.barrow@csuohio.edu http://web.ulib.csuohio.edu/SpecColl/ (Special Collections) Cleveland Memory Project: http://www.clevelandmemory.org Cleveland Digital Library: http://web.ulib.csuohio.edu/SpecColl/cdl/ Al Magary wrote: > > So far, no luck. .... > > but the overall > > topic I guess is too broad for any one institution. Too bad. We will just > > keep sorting and try to get the stuff to other institutiions in a topical > > way, or by country involved. > > Gosh, isn't there some zillionaire from the airline industry or cruise ship > industry who would put money into founding the [Your Name Here] Travel and > Tourism Collection at the main library in some world destination, like > Pocatello or New York City? > > Al Magary > > _______________________________________________________________ > MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography > hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. > The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of > the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of > Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for > the views of the author. > List Information: http://www.maphist.nl _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: "Al Magary" To: Subject: Re: [MapHist] library or museum of travel Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 01:21:53 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Bill Barrow wrote: > ........It would be awfully hard to get ones > arms around the subject from any one location. Most of the travel agency stuff > consists of tons of old ticket records, name badges, tour booklets, posters and > routine financial records, so what you'd want would be the oral histories of > people in the industry, descriptions of the types of trips people took (think > millions of "slides of our vacation") and perhaps the statistics on travel, > which leads us back to the major transportation industries....... Indeed, it can look like an enormous, amorphous field, and maybe a look at a special collection devoted to just one aspect of travel/exploration, such as polar exploration, might discourage one from taking on travel/tourism. Might need some brainstorming to define something both interesting and feasible. BTW I was in a used bookstore the other day and mentioned something to the proprietor about used travel guidebooks. E-e-a-aghhh, he said, more or less. No market. As someone who once wrote really useful travelguides (1971, 1973, 1975, 1981, 1983), I'd have to say that old guidebooks often have the same attraction as old Yellow Pages. OTOH as I do historical research on 19th century San Francisco, I'd love to lay my hands on old travelguides! Al Magary Al Magary _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 08:42:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: web5.po.com: www set sender to mcguirk1492@pol.net using -f From: Donald Mcguirk To: sphinx@camouflagetown.tv, maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: Re: [MapHist] seeking 11th-12th century maps Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Adrianne, A wonderful place to start for your colleage would be Marcel Destombes, "Mappemondes, A.D. 1200-1500." It should be available at USC library. If not (heaven forbid) you could go over to UCLA!! This book will let her know which maps to look for. There are also a few reproductions in the book of maps of this vintage. It will be helpful (Although not totally necessary) if they know some french. Good luck to your colleage. Don McGuirk ------------------ Reply Separator -------------------- Originally From: sphinx@camouflagetown.tv Subject: [MapHist] seeking 11th-12th century maps Date: 08/03/2002 08:10pm Dear Maphist: For an art project out of the University of Southern California: a colleague is seeking access to good reproductions of 11th or 12th century maps that depict Jerusalem as the center of the world. Can anyone suggest any and indicate whom he can contact to get images? Thank you. Adrianne Wortzel _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: "Kenneth Nebenzahl" To: Subject: Re: [MapHist] seeking 11th-12th century maps Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 10:37:57 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Aug 2002 15:35:14.0256 (UTC) FILETIME=[86E8B500:01C23BCC] Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Try MAPS OF THE HOLY LAND by Kenneth Nebenzahl, NY, Abbeville Press, 1986, available in any library worthy of the name! Ken Nebenzahl, knebenzahl@msn.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, August 03, 2002 10:10 PM Subject: [MapHist] seeking 11th-12th century maps > Dear Maphist: > > For an art project out of the University of Southern California: > > a colleague is seeking access to good reproductions of 11th or 12th century maps > that depict Jerusalem as the center of the world. Can anyone suggest any and > indicate whom he can contact to get images? > > Thank you. > > Adrianne Wortzel > _______________________________________________________________ > MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography > hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. > The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of > the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of > Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for > the views of the author. > List Information: http://www.maphist.nl > _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2002 13:38:24 -0400 From: "William C. Barrow" Subject: Re: [MapHist] library or museum of travel To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Organization: Cleveland State University X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Well, if anyone wants to discuss travel and hospitality archiving off-list (as this IS a map history list after all), I'd be happy to hear from them. Bill Barrow Special Collections Librarian Cleveland State University Library Al Magary wrote: > > So far, no luck. .... > > but the overall > > topic I guess is too broad for any one institution. Too bad. We will just > > keep sorting and try to get the stuff to other institutiions in a topical > > way, or by country involved. > > Gosh, isn't there some zillionaire from the airline industry or cruise ship > industry who would put money into founding the [Your Name Here] Travel and > Tourism Collection at the main library in some world destination, like > Pocatello or New York City? > > Al Magary _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: "tony campbell" To: "*MapHist" Subject: [MapHist] Index of the larger map image sites Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 18:40:07 +0100 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 List Members Various recent additions have been made to the 'Map History' site:- 1. Larger than usual updates have been made to the Articles < http://ihr.sas.ac.uk/maps/webtexts.html > and Images < http://ihr.sas.ac.uk/maps/webimages.html > pages, covering both June and July. Searching on "{June, 2002}", for example, would allow you to browse through the first half of each update. 2. The New South Wales 'Parish Map Project' seems to have received little publicity, despite the fact that its *30,000* images (in high resolution MrSID format) offer a comprehensive coverage of various classes of archival documents. Besides the entry on the Images page, another, longer one, has been added to the Web Projects page < http://ihr.sas.ac.uk/maps/projects.html#parish >. 3. Inspired by some helpful hints, I decided to see if I could decode the Bibliothèque nationale de France site. The new entry under the 'Large general sites' section of the Images page < http://ihr.sas.ac.uk/maps/webimages.html#large > shows what I managed to unearth in solid day's work. As a note says, I would appreciate improvements. Having spent some days (back in January) attempting (with only partial success) to deconstruct the Library of Congress site, I have now done two of the 'big three'. Happily (for me) the British Library has not yet mounted many map images. Maybe it would spoil the fun but I wonder if those who manage such large sites might make a little more of an effort to see things from the users' point of view, for example, by including site maps and other navigational aids. As a side benefit, they would almost certainly find their site was used more. 4. For those interested in the numbers of early map images on the web [long memories may recall a discussion about that on MapHist some two years ago], I have just mounted an 'Index to the largest map image sites' < http://ihr.sas.ac.uk/maps/webimages.html#index >. If you take a quick look at that, I am sure you will be surprised at just how many sites there are with 300 or more maps on them - a number with several thousand images, mostly in high resolution (i.e. research quality). 5. The recently completed 'Newsletters' page was announced a few weeks ago < http://ihr.sas.ac.uk/maps/newsletters.html >. A further addition since then has been to highlight (with * in the Contents listings) those available online. To date, 16 out of the 45 listed are freely accessible via the web. The roll of honour at the head of the page for titles joining that group already has the Coronelli Society 'News' (thanks to Peter van der Krogt). I hope others in the position to do so will consider taking that step in future. If you are worried about the potential impact on recruitment to your society or the sales of your newsletter, why not check with one or two of those who have taken the web route. Perhaps they will be able to reassure you. Finally, please do make a point of checking the 'What's New' page on 'Map History' from time to time. Tony Campbell t.campbell@ockendon.clara.co.uk _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: "Ronald Whistance-Smith" To: Subject: Re: [MapHist] seeking 11th-12th century maps Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 11:47:27 -0600 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Adrianne, have your friend check the following slide set which will provide images readily reproduced. Title : History of cartography [slide]. -- Published : [s.l] : Harper & Row, Publishers, [1973]. Paging : 220 slides : col. ; + 1 instructor's guide (x, 49 p.) ; in container. Subjects : Cartography--History. Discoveries in geography--History. Credits;: Author, George Kish. Summary : Illustrates the development of mapmaking among primitive peoples and sophisticated seafarers. Compares the cartographic achievements of Western and Far Eastern civilizations. Depicts the stages of growth of cartography in classical, medieval, and early modern times. Explains the process of Western man's discovery of distant lands. Ron Whistance-Smith ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, August 03, 2002 9:10 PM Subject: [MapHist] seeking 11th-12th century maps > Dear Maphist: > > For an art project out of the University of Southern California: > > a colleague is seeking access to good reproductions of 11th or 12th century maps > that depict Jerusalem as the center of the world. Can anyone suggest any and > indicate whom he can contact to get images? > > Thank you. > > Adrianne Wortzel > _______________________________________________________________ > MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography > hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. > The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of > the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of > Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for > the views of the author. > List Information: http://www.maphist.nl _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: WJWarren@aol.com Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 13:49:52 EDT Subject: [MapHist] Travel libraries To: Maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 139 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Jack Kemball was a professor at Pomona College who left a tremendous archive of material covering both commercial and passenger liner business to the Huntington Library. The ephemera section, many, many file drawers of material, is being catalogued by Mario Einaudi at the Huntington. After several years he is only part way through this collection of everything from cruise line brochures to annual reports to carefully folded cocktail napkins from various lines. Since lines in the twentieth century acted like today's conglomerates, swallowing one another and regurgitating new lines with the same old names, it's a tangled web. The information is being made available for Readers at the Huntington Library in FileMaker Pro format. Bill Warren 1109 Linda Glen Drive Pasadena, CA 91105 (626) 792-9152 fax (626) 568-4945 wjwarren@aol.com _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: jsk@pop.gamewood.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2002 14:08:24 -0400 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: Joel Kovarsky Subject: [MapHist] Jerusalem as center of world Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 I don't recall seeing this posted in regards to the recent query. If duplicated, I'm sorry. See a very nice presentation at: . Joel Kovarsky _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2002 14:53:23 -0400 From: Overlee Farm Books X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en To: maphist@geog.uu.nl, sotterstrom@byu.edu Subject: [MapHist] Wall Street Journal Article Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Historical geographers, cartographers, and surveyors should read the front-page article in the August 2 issue of the Wall Street Journal entitled "Aided by Satellites, Boundary Disputes Make a Comeback: Cheaper, More-Precise Surveys Lead U.S. Towns, Counties To Redefine Their Limits." Pardon any cross-posting. Martin Torodash _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2002 14:59:32 -0400 From: Overlee Farm Books X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: [MapHist] Wall Street Journal Article Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Historical geographers, cartographers, and surveyors should read the front-page article in the August 2 issue of the Wall Street Journal entitled: "Aided by Satellites, Boundary Disputes Make a Comeback: Cheaper More-Precise Surveys Lead U.S. Towns, Counties To Redefine Their Limits." Martin Torodash _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: krogt@pop.geog.uu.nl X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 11:47:50 +0200 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl (by way of Peter van der Krogt ) Subject: [MapHist] Vinland Map: The Sunday Times 4 August X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by pop.geog.uu.nl id LAA23139 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Non-member submission from ["Cook, Andrew" ] Those following the Vinland Map thread may be interested to read the report published in The Sunday Times in London yesterday 4 August. Andrew Cook Report follows: Turbulent priest forged Viking map of America Nicholas Hellen A map which rewrote the history of the discovery of America and has been valued at £16m was almost certainly forged 70 years ago by a Jesuit priest. The Vinland map was purportedly drawn in 1440 to chart the travels of the Norse explorers half a century before Christopher Columbus's voyage to the West Indies. But it was in fact created in the 1930s as a scholarly protest against the Nazis. The identity of the forger, Father Joseph Fischer, an Austrian Jesuit, has been unmasked after an eight-year search by Kirsten Seaver, an expert in north Atlantic exploration. Announcing her conclusions this weekend, she said: "I do absolutely believe I have found the forger." Peter Barber, head of map collections at the British Library, endorsed her discovery. "It is persuasive," he said. The map provoked uproar when it was first made public by Yale University in America on October 11, 1965, the day before Columbus Day. It depicted the coastline of Hudson Bay and the Gulf of St Lawrence, and seemed to prove legends suggesting that Norsemen were the first Europeans to visit the New World rather than Columbus, the Genoese hero. By 1960 Norse settlements had been discovered on the same coastline, appearing to confirm that Norsemen had got there five centuries before Columbus. Bjarni Herjolfsson is believed to have sailed there in 985 and Leif Eriksson in 1002. Historians now accept that the Norse explorers were indeed first - but the map which appeared to prove it was an inspired fraud. It first came to light in 1957 when a group of antiquarian dealers attempted to sell it to the British Library. They were sent packing but made a killing a year later when, having bought it for $3,500, they sold it for an estimated $1m to Paul Mellon, an American financier. He donated it to Yale. According to Seaver - whose book Maps, Myths and Men: The Story of the Vinland Map will be published by Stanford University Press later this year - the forger who created it never sought to profit from it. Fischer, who died in Germany in 1944 aged 86, was an authority on world maps of the 15th and 16th centuries. As a young man he had discovered the first map, dated 1507, to name America. It was bought recently by the Library of Congress for $10m (£6.3m). According to Seaver, Fischer was obsessed by achieving firsts and cultivated a network of patrons and dealers who were willing to give him access to their collections in exchange for harnessing his scholarship. She believes it was during the mid-1930s when he got hold of a volume of 15th-century manuscripts which had bound into it a loose leaf of a piece of parchment dating from the 1440s. She believes the manuscripts. comprising a medieval travel account, Tartar Relation, and a historical work, the Speculum Historiale, were acquired between 1931-34 by the Jesuit college of Stella Matutina at Feldkirch, in Austria, to which Fischer was linked. It bears the remains of a faded stamp similar to that used by the college. However, analysis of the chemical composition of the Vinland ink, published last month by British scientists, shows that it included a mineral called anatase which was not used before the 1920s. Seaver has analysed the record of every other scholar in the field between 1920 and 1957 and insists that on 40 different counts the circumstantial evidence points to Fischer. His handwriting corresponds to that on the map and the mistaken Latinate spellings are as one would expect of a scholar who was proficient in Latin but ignorant of Old Norse. Even his prescience traps him: the map shows a round world. According to Seaver, he was alone in realising that medieval map makers had retained the Ptolemaic knowledge that the world was not flat. But what could be the motive of a medieval scholar, forbidden by his faith from accumulating possessions? Seaver thinks he succumbed to depression after his academic credentials were attacked by a rival in 1934, distorting his judgment. Seaver believes that he felt revulsion at Nazi attempts to associate the Third Reich with ancient Norse culture and felt threatened by orchestrated intimidation of the Jesuits. His forgery, she claims, harnessed the only opportunity for defiance available to him. His Vinland map, festooned with saints' names, staked a powerful claim about the dominion of the Catholic church. "It would present an impossible dilemma to the German authorities if they found it. It endorsed their myths of Aryan superiority by association with Norse myths, yet if they accepted its authenticity they would have to acknowledge that the church reached around the globe long before the 15th century," said Seaver. ********************************************************************** Now open at the British Library Galleries: Trading Places : the East India Company and Asia (to 22 September) ********************************************************************* The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete this e-mail and notify the postmaster@bl.uk : The contents of this e-mail must not be disclosed or copied without the sender's consent. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the British Library. The British Library does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. ********************************************************************* _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: "Sebastian Bykuc" To: Subject: RE: [MapHist] Antonio Millo Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 13:21:12 +0200 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Thank You very much, at least i know what i should look for. The problem is the publisher does not sell books online (as i belive) and i don't think the books will be accesible in Poland where i live. There is something online about(?) Antonio Millo on http://www.chioscity.gr/home/gen_shmeio.htm but i don't know even a word in greek. Was he Greek? sebastian -----Original Message----- From: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl [mailto:owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl]On Behalf Of dimitris loupis Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 8:43 PM To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: Re: [MapHist] Antonio Millo I have in hand the Greek edition of the book by George Tolias on the Greek portolan charts. The English edition must be George Tolias, The Greek Portolan Charts, 15th-17th century. Athens: Olkos Publications, 1999. Antonio Millo and his charts and isolarii are discussed in the book, while color reproductions of his works are in pp. 142-172 of the Greek edition. Millo together with other isolarii producers are the topic of the new book by the same author: George Tolias, Ta Nesologia. He Monaxia kai he syndrofia ton neson [Isolarii. Solitude and company of the islands]. Athens: Olkos Publications, 2002. You may check the publisher site: <> __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: "Sebastian Bykuc" To: Subject: RE: [MapHist] Millo and portolani e isolari at Museo Correr Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 13:43:26 +0200 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Thank You for your response, I've already seen information about this Exhibition, but i belive that the catalogue is in greek and italien and i don't know any of them unfortunatly. The best way for my sister (that's her who is working on conservation of 16- century atlas of Millo) would be to go there and see the exhibition by herselve but this is impossible. Do you know if there are any information about Millo online (in english or german)? Was Antonio Millo Greek? Sebastian -----Original Message----- From: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl [mailto:owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl] Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 10:34 AM To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: [MapHist] Millo and portolani e isolari at Museo Correr Non-member submission from ["Piero Lucchi" ] Some informations about Antonio Millo and his portolan can be founded in = the catalogue of the Exhibition now at the Museum Correr in Venice = "Navigare e descrivere". The catalogue (Navigare e descrivere. Isolari e portolani del Museo = Correr XV -XVIII secolo, a cura di Camillo Tonini e Piero Lucchi, = Venezia, Marsilio editori, 2001) includes an essay written by Georgios = Tolias and some pictures of the portolan charts of Millo. The Correr's exhibition (which includes a rich and precious selection of = ancient maps, manuscripts and printed books conserved at Correr Museum's = library) opened 1 Dicember 2001and will close the 15 September 2002 ( = every day, from 9 a.m. to 17,30 p.m.). Piero Lucchi Biblioteca del Museo Correr, San Marco 52, 30124 - Venezia e-mail biblioteca.correr@comune.venezia.it libro.antico@comune.venezia.it YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY Dr Peter van der Krogt Map Historian, Explokart Research Program Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht P.O. Box 80.115 3508 TC UTRECHT, The Netherlands e-mail: peter@maphist.nl Homepage: MapHist: Genealogy: Elementymology: Columbus Monuments: YYYYYYYYYYYYYYY PER ANGUSTA AD AUGUSTA YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 16:52:18 +0200 Subject: Re: [MapHist] seeking 11th-12th century maps From: Vladimiro Valerio To: X-scanner: scanned by Inflex 1.0.9 - (http://pldaniels.com/inflex/) Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 May I also suggest the old and still valuable for his atlas, Joachim Lelewel, Geographie du Moyen Age (2 vols + atlas with fifty plates) and (might the colleague read italian) Luciano Lago and Graziella Galliano, La Terra Santa e la sua immagine nella cartografia storica, Trieste 1995 (ISBN 88-7292-167-8). Vladimiro WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW Vladimiro Valerio Via Raffaello Morghen, 88 I-80129 Napoli phone &fax +39-081-5568952 +39-335-403807 vladimir@unina.it Istituto Universitario di Architettura Dipartimento di Storia della Architettura San Polo 2468 - Palazzo Badoer I-30125 Venezia +39-041-2571458 vladimir@iuav.it WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW PER ASPERA AD ASTRA WWWWWWWWWWW Il giorno 4-08-2002 14:42, Donald Mcguirk, mcguirk1492@POL.NET ha scritto: > Adrianne, > > A wonderful place to start for your colleage would be Marcel > Destombes, "Mappemondes, A.D. 1200-1500." It should be available at > USC library. If not (heaven forbid) you could go over to UCLA!! > This book will let her know which maps to look for. There are > also a few reproductions in the book of maps of this vintage. It will > be helpful (Although not totally necessary) if they know some french. > Good luck to your colleage. > > Don McGuirk > > ------------------ Reply Separator -------------------- > Originally From: sphinx@camouflagetown.tv > Subject: [MapHist] seeking 11th-12th century maps > Date: 08/03/2002 08:10pm > > > Dear Maphist: > > For an art project out of the University of Southern California: > > a colleague is seeking access to good reproductions of 11th or 12th > century maps > that depict Jerusalem as the center of the world. Can anyone > suggest any and > indicate whom he can contact to get images? > > Thank you. > > Adrianne Wortzel > _______________________________________________________________ > MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography > hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. > The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of > the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of > Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility > for > the views of the author. > List Information: http://www.maphist.nl > > _______________________________________________________________ > MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography > hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. > The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of > the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of > Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for > the views of the author. > List Information: http://www.maphist.nl _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: akermanj@mail.newberry.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 10:45:35 -0500 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: Jim Akerman Subject: Re: [MapHist] Travel libraries Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Alice, everyone.

The fact is that this stuff is widely available but people have to look for it.  The Newberry, for example, has never been thought of (until recently) as a resource in modern travel.  But even before the Rand McNally collection came here we had many 19th-century guidebooks for rail travelers, Baedekers, etc.  But no centralized index for this material.  I imagine that any major library that existed at least at the beginning of the twentieth century has a lot of stuff--including things not thought of as the history of travel sources--such as sporting magazines.  For the 20th century, the hard part is convincing people to keep the mountains of related ephemera.

And, by the way, there is an extensive secondary literature on the history of travel in the United States, especially related to rail travel and the national parks, but increasingly also on automobile travel and its roadside architecture.  For starters, you can't go wrong with the several books published by John Jakle, especially The Tourist.  Also an excellent book on tourism in the West in the Twentieth Century by HK Rothman:  Devil's Bargains: Tourism in the Twentieth-Century American West (Kansas, 1998).

Finally, I mentioned to Alice offlist that the archives of the Automobile Club of Michigan are in the Henry Ford Museum, which has a fine research library that has good stuff on automobile tourism.

Jim Akerman

At 01:49 PM 8/4/02 -0400, WJWarren@aol.com wrote:
Jack Kemball was a professor at Pomona College who left a tremendous archive
of material covering both commercial and passenger liner business to the
Huntington Library. The ephemera section, many, many file drawers of
material, is being catalogued by Mario Einaudi at the Huntington. After
several years he is only part way through this collection of everything from
cruise line brochures to annual reports to carefully folded cocktail napkins
from various lines. Since lines in the twentieth century acted like today's
conglomerates, swallowing one another and regurgitating new lines with the
same old names, it's a tangled web. The information is being made available
for Readers at the Huntington Library in FileMaker Pro format.

Bill Warren
1109 Linda Glen Drive
Pasadena, CA 91105
(626) 792-9152
fax (626) 568-4945
wjwarren@aol.com
_______________________________________________________________
MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography
hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of
the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of
Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for
the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.nl
X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: ahudson@NYPL.ORG Subject: Re: [MapHist] Travel libraries To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Cc: maphist@geog.uu.nl, owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.4 June 8, 2000 Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 11:59:23 -0400 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on MHTMAIL02/MHT/Nypl(Release 5.0.10 |March 22, 2002) at 08/05/2002 11:59:55 AM Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Dear mapsters, Thanks to all of you for your input on this. Looks like the Huntington Library collection is closest to what I was looking for. Another angle, of course, is the "Grand Tour," about which there are some coffeetable books and other materials out there. Paula Baxter here at NYPL will be curating an exhibit on same sometime in the next couple of years. Thanks agan, I think we all have gotten some great ideas for further work on the "travel" angle as it relates to maps. As ever, maphist has been a tremendous help. Over and out. Alice C. Hudson Chief, Map Division The Humanities and Social Sciences Library The New York Public Library 5th Avenue & 42nd Street, Room 117 New York, NY 10018-2788 ahudson@nypl.org; 212-930-0589; fax 212-930-0027 http://nypl.org/research/chss/map/map.html _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: vanderkr@mail.vanderkrogt.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 18:11:12 +0200 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: Peter van der Krogt Subject: [MapHist] Fwd: Gough Map on public display Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 >From: Nick Millea >To: lis-maps , liber list , > maps-l , > carto-soc >Subject: Gough Map on public display >Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 15:36:13 +0100 (GMT Daylight Time) > >[Apologies for cross-posting: lis-maps, liber-gdc, carto-soc, maps-l, >various private individuals] (and by me forwarded to MapHist, Peter) >Dear All, > >As part of the Bodleian Library's 400th Anniversary celebrations, the >current exhibition "Wonderful things from 400 years of collecting: >the Bodleian Library 1602-2002" includes the Gough Map, the oldest >surviving road map of Great Britain dating from ca.1360. The exhibition >runs until 21 December 2002 and admission is free. Details can be found >at: > http://www.bodley.ox.ac.uk/exhibitions/ > >With best wishes, >Nick Millea > >________________________________________________________ > >Nick Millea >Map Librarian, Bodleian Library, Broad Street, Oxford, OX1 3BG >tel : 01865 287119 >fax : 01865 277139 >email : nam@bodley.ox.ac.uk > >homepage: http://www.bodley.ox.ac.uk/guides/maps/ >________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 5.5.6.1 Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 13:19:55 -0400 From: "James Findlay" To: Subject: Re: [MapHist] Travel libraries X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by pop.geog.uu.nl id TAA25496 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 The Wolfsonian-FIU [Museum/Library] (Florida Internationl University) in Miami Beach has an enormous collection of U.S. and European travel artifacts and printed materials (1890-1945). The Wolfsonian-FIU 1000 Washington Ave. Miami Beach, FL 33139 www.wolfsonian.fiu.edu James A. Findlay Broward County Main Library Bienes Center for the Literary Arts The Dianne & Michael Bienes Special Collections and Rare Book Library 100 S. Andrews Ave. Ft. Lauderdale, FL 33301 954-357-8692 (voice) 954-357-6762 (fax) jfindlay@browardlibrary.org (e-mail) www.broward.org/bienes Broward County Libraries Division (A Service of the Broward County Board of County Commissioners) ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ********************************************************************** _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 16:36:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Lisa Blansett To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: Re: [MapHist] library or museum of travel Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 The Wolfsonian Museum in Miami Beach is putting together a show on cruise tourism. *--*--*--*--*--*--* Lisa Blansett Assistant Professor English Department Florida International University DM 461A Miami, FL 33199 (305)348-2507 blansett@fiu.edu www.fiu.edu/~english www.fiu.edu/~blansett/index.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Florida International University is part of the State University System of Florida. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: "Ed Dahl" To: "MAPHIST \(to post\)" Subject: [MapHist] Obituary -- Lou SEBERT, 1916-2002 Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 10:41:30 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Part of an obituary for one of Canada's map historians. (Lou was also one of the co-organizers of the International Conference on the History of Cartography in Ottawa in 1985.) ***** Ottawa Citizen, August 6, 2002, C14 ***** Louis Mason SEBERT Suddenly, on August 1, 2002 at the age of 85.... After graduating from the University of Toronto in Engineering, Col. Sebert served in WW II in England and Italy. Afterwards, he transferred to the Canadian Army Survey Establishment where he was instrumental in surveying the Canadian Arctic. Retiring for the Army in 1965, he joined the Surveys and Mapping Branch of the federal Department of Energy, Mines and Resources until his retirement in 1981. A prominent figure in the Canadian mapping community, Lou Sebert co-founded the Canadian Cartographic Association and throughout his career was actively involved with the Royal Canadian Geographical Society and the Canadian Institute of Geomatics. A prolific writer, Lou Sebert published extensively on the subject of Canadian cartography. Among other works, he co-wrote "The Maps of Canada" (1981) and co-edited "Mapping a Northern Land" (1999). In 1995 Lou received the Camsell Award for outstanding service to the Royal Canadian Geographical Society and in 2001 he received the Award of Distinction for exceptional professional contributions to the practice of cartography from the Canadian Cartographic Association. Still active as a consultant in his field at the time of his passing, Lou Sebert will be deeply missed by his family, friends and colleagues.... ***** Ed Dahl, 1292 Montée Paiement, Gatineau, Québec J8R 3K5, CANADA TEL: (819) 561-4029 FAX: (819) 561-7753 edahl@iosphere.net _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: maphist@mail.maphist.nl X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 14:34:55 +0200 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: Peter van der Krogt Subject: [MapHist] Hondius's atlas of Italy 1626 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Dear all, In 1626 Jodocus Hondius Jr. published Nova et Accurata Italiae Hodiernae Descriptio, a description of Italy with text by Caspar Barlaeus and 98 engraved plates: a map of ancient Italy, a map of modern Italy, 30 regional maps (one map is used twice) and 65 town views. An unlaltered second edition was published in 1627 by Bonaventura and Abraham Elsevier. I include this work in volume III of the new Koeman's Atlantes Neerlandici, mainly because the map plates are later used for other atlases. If the work itself can be considered as an atlas is doubtful. Except some references that the text is compiled by Barlaeus (his name is not mentioned) I haven't found any literature on this work. Does anybody of you (esp. the Italian subscribers) know of articles of chapters devoted to this Hondius atlas? P.S. I am not looking for copies of this work, it is not very rare (as far as an early 17th-century book can be common). Thanks Peter YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY Dr Peter van der Krogt Map Historian, Explokart Research Program Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht P.O. Box 80.115 3508 TC UTRECHT, The Netherlands e-mail: peter@maphist.nl Homepage: MapHist: Genealogy: Elementymology: Columbus Monuments: YYYYYYYYYYYYYYY PER ANGUSTA AD AUGUSTA YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5.2 Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2002 15:53:16 +0200 From: "Paul van den Brink" To: , Subject: Betr.: [MapHist] Hondius's atlas of Italy 1626 X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by pop.geog.uu.nl id PAA14433 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Peter Lankhorst mentions no books or articles on this specific work. However his bibliography (especially chapter IIIa) and the articles by Barberi (1985), and Anon. (1992), which deals with a seperate map from the "Nova et accurata Italiae", might be of interest to you. Surprisingly Blok (1976) doesn't mention the atlas nor Barlaeus cooperation to it. Though I know that you are well aware of all the bibliographical aspects of the atlas, I should draw your attention on the fact that the titlepage of the 1627 Elzevier edition differs from the 1626 Hondius edition. (Cf. Petit (1894, no. 21a)) ANON. (1992) Particolare della carta del "FORVM IVLY, ET TRIVIGLIANO" nella Nova et accurata Italiae Hodiernae descriptio di Jodocus Hondinus , 1626. In: La bassa/25 - Dicembre 1992 BARBERI, F.(1985) Gli Elzevier e l'Italia. - In: Accademie e bibliotheca 53(1985), p. 279-298 BERGHMAN, G. (1897) Supplément a l'ouvrage sur Les Elzevier de M. Alphonse Willems. - Stockholm, 1897. (Nouvelles études sur la Bibliographie Elzevirienne), p. 61, no. 160 and note. BLOK, F.F. (1976) Caspar Barleaus : from the correspondence of a melancholic. - Assen etc., 1976 LANKHORST, O.S. (2000) Bibliografie over de familie en het uitgevrsbedrijf Elzevier (1580-1712). In: Boekverkopers van Europa : het 17de-eeuwse Nederlandse uitgevrshuis Elzevier / B.P.M. Dongelmans [et. al.]. - Zutphen, 2000, p. 315-339. PETIT , L.D. (1894) Bibliographische lijst der werken van de Leidsche hoogleeraren van de oprichting der hoogeschool tot op onze dagen. Deel I. - Leiden, 1894. p. 21 and 21a. PIETERS, CH. Annales de l'Imprimerie des Elsevier, ou Histoire de leur famille et de leurs éditions. - Seconde édition, revue et augmentée. - A Gand, 1858. - p. 94, no. 29. Dr. Paul van den Brink Explokart Research Program University of Utrecht The Netherlands _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: jsk@pop.gamewood.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2002 11:49:37 -0400 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: Joel Kovarsky Subject: [MapHist] new map collector discussion list (IAMA) Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 The International Antiquarian Mapsellers Association (IAMA) has just launched a new, online discussion list for map collectors and dealers. This is free, and subscription instructions are given below, and also posted at: <http://www.antiquemapdealers.com/contact.htm>. This list is in no way intended to compete with MapHist, and certain postings may actually be referred there for consideration. We will, however, welcome commercial (trade) postings, even from dealers who are not active members of the IAMA itself. (This new discussion list is completely separate from the private organizational list of the IAMA, which does require active membership.) We hope that, over time, map collectors, collecting societies, librarians, researchers, and dealers will find this added format useful.

For those of you who choose to subscribe, please note that the process initially requires 2 emails IN A SIMILAR MANNER TO MAPHIST, and the second one must be received to verify the initial application address (there will be an authorization code you will use).

To register for and receive our Map Collector Discussion List:

1. Send an email to
majordomo@antiquemapdealers.com. In the BODY of the email write:

subscribe mapcollector "your email address" (no quotes)

2. You will receive a confirmatory email, along with another requesting an authorization (to be sure it came from you). Send a second email to the majordomo address, copying that single authorization line into the body of the email, and all instructions, etc. will come to you. You may wish to save those instructions.

3. To post a message to this list, after you've subscribed, send emails to
mapcollector@antiquemapdealers.com. Do NOT send attachments, chain letters, virus alerts, or very long messages. Please use PLAIN TEXT, not html, when posting messages.

WE HOPE TO SEE YOU ON THE MAP COLLECTOR DISCUSSION LIST. IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, PLEASE FEEL FREE TO CONTACT ME.

                               Joel Kovarsky


X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: "Rodney Shirley" To: Subject: Re: [MapHist] Hondius's atlas of Italy 1626 Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 20:28:49 +0100 Organization: UUNET X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Peter van der Krogt, at al The British Library has copies of the 1626 and 1627 editions. I have a note that some of the town plans or views may have originated elsewhere as they have plate numbers not corres;ponding to the pagination in the Hondius-Barlaeus work. I had thought at first that the source might be Guicciardini (Janssonius, 1625) but the sizes do not correspond. You say that it is doubtful if the work can be considered an atlas. Is this based on the quantity [proportion] of text? Or do you have a more ad hoc definition--perhaps (like Chatelain's Atlas Historique), defined by the author? Rodney Shirley rws@dial.pipex.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter van der Krogt" To: Sent: 07 August 2002 13:34 Subject: [MapHist] Hondius's atlas of Italy 1626 > Dear all, > > In 1626 Jodocus Hondius Jr. published Nova et Accurata Italiae Hodiernae > Descriptio, a description of Italy with text by Caspar Barlaeus and 98 > engraved plates: a map of ancient Italy, a map of modern Italy, 30 regional > maps (one map is used twice) and 65 town views. > An unlaltered second edition was published in 1627 by Bonaventura and > Abraham Elsevier. > I include this work in volume III of the new Koeman's Atlantes Neerlandici, > mainly because the map plates are later used for other atlases. If the work > itself can be considered as an atlas is doubtful. > > Except some references that the text is compiled by Barlaeus (his name is > not mentioned) I haven't found any literature on this work. Does anybody of > you (esp. the Italian subscribers) know of articles of chapters devoted to > this Hondius atlas? > > P.S. I am not looking for copies of this work, it is not very rare (as far > as an early 17th-century book can be common). > > Thanks > > Peter > > > > YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY > Dr Peter van der Krogt > Map Historian, Explokart Research Program > Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht > P.O. Box 80.115 > 3508 TC UTRECHT, The Netherlands > e-mail: peter@maphist.nl > Homepage: > MapHist: > Genealogy: > Elementymology: > Columbus Monuments: > > YYYYYYYYYYYYYYY PER ANGUSTA AD AUGUSTA YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY > > _______________________________________________________________ > MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography > hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. > The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of > the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of > Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for > the views of the author. > List Information: http://www.maphist.nl _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: "Evelyn Edson" To: Subject: [MapHist] Jerusalem as center Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 10:34:22 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 As several respondents have pointed out, Jerusalem is not usually shown as the center of the world map until after the beginning of the Crusades. The earliest map, I believe, is in MS 17 at Oxford, St. John's College. It shows Jerusalem and the cross of Christ in the center of a diagrammatic world map. There is a reproduction of this map in my book, Mapping Time and Space. Evelyn Edson Professor of History Piedmont Virginia Community College 501 College Drive Charlottesville, VA 22902 (434) 961-5384 _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: "Evelyn Edson" To: Subject: [MapHist] Byzantine maps Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 10:36:50 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Reading The Alexiad, I came across this interesting reference and would like to know what scholars of Byzantine maps make of it. In Book 13 (the emperor) "drew him a map of the coasts of Lombardy and Illyricum, with harbors on either side. This he sent to him (the beleaguered general), adding written instructions. He advised him where to moor his ships and from what place to set sail if the wind was favorable, in order to attack the Kelts at sea." This is on p. 415 of the Penguin translation. It sounds like a marine chart and portolan to me, and the date is about 1110. Any comments? Evelyn Edson Professor of History Piedmont Virginia Community College 501 College Drive Charlottesville, VA 22902 (434) 961-5384 _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 11:49:03 -0400 From: Richard Raiswell To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: Re: [MapHist] Byzantine maps Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 In my experience, some of these translations can be very misleading. The Loeb edition of Pliny, for instance, has references to maps at several points. However, the Latin says nothing of the sort. I would check the Greek; "drew" might be a fairly free rendering of phrasing that implies a written text. *********************************************************************** Richard Raiswell // raiswell@chass.utoronto.ca Dept. of History, Room 2074 Sidney Smith Hall, University of Toronto, 100 St. George Street, Toronto, Ont. M5S 3G3 Centre for Reformation and Renaissance Studies, Victoria University, University of Toronto, 71 Queen's Park Crescent, Toronto, Ont. M5S 1K7 http://www.crrs.ca *********************************************************************** On Fri, 9 Aug 2002, Evelyn Edson wrote: > Reading The Alexiad, I came across this interesting reference and would like > to know what scholars of Byzantine maps make of it. In Book 13 (the > emperor) "drew him a map of the coasts of Lombardy and Illyricum, with > harbors on either side. This he sent to him (the beleaguered general), > adding written instructions. He advised him where to moor his ships and > from what place to set sail if the wind was favorable, in order to attack > the Kelts at sea." > This is on p. 415 of the Penguin translation. It sounds like a marine chart > and portolan to me, and the date is about 1110. Any comments? > > Evelyn Edson > Professor of History > Piedmont Virginia Community College > 501 College Drive > Charlottesville, VA 22902 > (434) 961-5384 > > > _______________________________________________________________ > MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography > hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. > The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of > the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of > Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for > the views of the author. > List Information: http://www.maphist.nl > _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: blr@raremaps.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 10:44:12 -0700 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: Barry Ruderman Subject: [MapHist] Ricci Map Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Dear Maphisters, Can anyone provide me with a good general reference for the Ricci World Map. Thank you. Barry ruderman _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: day@pop.theworld.com Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 14:30:29 -0400 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: John Day Subject: Re: [MapHist] Ricci Map Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 At 10:44 -0700 8/9/02, Barry Ruderman wrote: >Dear Maphisters, > >Can anyone provide me with a good general reference for the Ricci World Map. More than you ever wanted to know! ;-) Could you be more specific in what you are looking for. (See article in 95 Imago Mundi) Take care, John Day _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: jdocktor@cyberia.com@pop.onemain.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 17:04:24 -0400 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: "John W. Docktor" Subject: Re: [MapHist] Ricci Map Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 >Can anyone provide me with a good general reference for the Ricci World Map. J.B. Harley & David Woodward, "History of Cartography," Volume 2, Book 2, Cartography in the Traditional East and Southeast Asian Societies, pp. 170-171 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- John W. Docktor Phone: 717-846-8997 Fax: 717-845-9337 jdocktor@cyberia.com Cartography - Calendars of Events & Exhibitions: http://www.docktor.com/ Washington Map Society: http://www.washmap.org/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: jsk@pop.gamewood.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 17:36:35 -0400 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: Joel Kovarsky Subject: [MapHist] World War II maps Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 As there were a number of recent posts dealing with WWII maps, I'd thought I'd share the reference below. This was just given to me as a gift. It has reproductions of over 100 maps, all from the Public Record Office at Kew in west London, which reflect the prior output of several government departments during wartime. Some are quite intriguing- the two-man X-craft attack on Tirpitz, several maps of guerrilla movements. Others show day-to-day movements of several major offensives in the European Theatre, including Russia.  Many of the maps show annotations by various commanders and/or operational staff.

Swift, Michael and Sharpe, Michael: Historical Maps of World War II Europe. PRC Publishing Ltd., London, 2000.

                 Joel Kovarsky
X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: deelong@mail.gci.net Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 13:50:29 -0800 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: Dee Longenbaugh Subject: Re: [MapHist] Ricci Map Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 >>Can anyone provide me with a good general reference for the Ricci World Map? > > A quick troll through Google under "Mateo Ricci Map" produced 34 hits. Give it a try, remembering to put your request in quotation marks. Hope this helps, Dee -- The Observatory, ABAA 200 North Franklin Juneau, Alaska 99801 Telephone 907/586-9676 Fax 907/586-9606 deelong@alaska.com http://www.observatorybooks.com 1977-2002, our 25th year _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: day@pop.theworld.com Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 21:12:22 -0400 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: John Day Subject: Re: [MapHist] Ricci Map Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 At 13:50 -0800 8/9/02, Dee Longenbaugh wrote: >>>Can anyone provide me with a good general reference for the Ricci World Map? >> >> >A quick troll through Google under "Mateo Ricci Map" produced 34 >hits. Give it a try, remembering to put your request in quotation >marks. > Hope this helps, > Dee I'd be careful. The first one I checked pointed at a picture labeled "Matteo Ricci's map of the world" that distinctly is not a picture of the map. Take care, John _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: "Matthew Champion" To: "Maphist" Subject: [MapHist] Cuningham's 16th century map of Norwich Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 08:50:46 +0100 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714
Dear All
 
I am currently attempting to finish my dissertation for a diploma in Landscape Archaeology at the University of East Anglia. My chosen subject, 'Perspective Maps of the Sixteenth and Early Seventeenth Century; their construction, social context and chronology - with particular reference to London and Norwich', has proven most interesting and I have received a great deal of help and advice from Peter Barber at the British Library. However, with the deadline for submission looming ever closer, I have now come across a slight problem.
A large part of my work deals with William Cuningham's map of Norwich which was contained within his book 'The Cosmographical Glasse' published in 1558/9. A few weeks ago my computer system was damaged by lightning and my scanned images of Cuningham's map, along with a lot of other bits and pieces, have now disappeared. I can no longer find the original photograph from which I took the scan. I have ordered a new photograph - but this will take several weeks to be delivered. As I now have only two weeks left before the submission deadline I was wondering if anyone on the Maphist list might be able to point me in the direction of a reasonably high quality copy of the map available on the web? I know it's a bit of a long shot but thought it might be worth a try.
Many thanks
Matthew Champion
 
X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: maphist@mail.maphist.nl X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 10:34:53 +0200 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: Peter van der Krogt Subject: [MapHist] What is an atlas?, was Re: Hondius's atlas of Italy 1626 X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by pop.geog.uu.nl id KAA13373 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Dear Rodney and list At 21:28 8-8-2002, you wrote: >You say that it is doubtful if the work can be considered an atlas. Is >this based on the quantity [proportion] of text? Or do you have a more >ad hoc definition--perhaps (like Chatelain's Atlas Historique), In the introduction of vol. I of my edition of Koeman's Atlantes Neerlandici of 1997 I wrote: An atlas is defined as a book with maps, which meets the following characteristics: (1) a collection of printed maps in book form or bound similar to a book with a printed title page; in cases where text is included, the publisher's intention to give the dominance of graphic elements (particularly maps, plans or town views) over textual elements, must be clear, either from the title (expressed by the word "atlas" or not) or from the concept of the work; (2) the rough uniformity of map format, design, and presentation throughout the work; and (3) the standardization (generally), from copy to copy in each edition, of composition and arrangement of atlas components. To be short, in case you have a book with maps and texts, the difference between an atlas and a book-with-maps (not an atlas) is: - atlas = a book consisting of maps with accompanying texts - not an atlas = a book consisting of text with accompanying maps. The quantity of maps, or the proportion of text/maps is not relevant for this definition. The concept of the work makes it an atlas, not the number of maps. A major indication for the publisher's intention is the title of the work. 'Atlas' or 'Theatrum' usually indicate that the maps are on the first place (thus Chatelain's "Atlas Historique" is an atlas). A clear title is also that of Bertius's pocket atlas: "Tabularum Geographicarum Contractarum Libri Quatuor cum luculentis singularum tabularum explicationibus" (= Four books of reduced geographical maps with clear explications to each map) (thus, the texts explain the maps). The title of Hondius's book on Italy is "Nova et Accurata Italiæ hodiernæ descriptio ... geographicis tabulis et urbium praecipuarum iconibus illustrata" (New and accurate description of modern Italy ... illustrated with geographical maps and views of the important towns). This title makes clear the maps (and town views) were added to illustrate the text. Therefore, it does not meet the definition and is not an atlas. But, as I wrote in my earlier e-mail, the use of the copperplates for later atlases makes it reasonable to include Hondius's work in the new edition of Koeman's Atlantes Neerlandici. P.S. Sometimes people ask me, why do you say that book X is not an atlas, since it includes so many important maps. The answer is, the fact if a book is defined as an atlas or as a book-with-maps does not say anything about the scholarly value of the work. Peter YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY Dr Peter van der Krogt Map Historian, Explokart Research Program Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht P.O. Box 80.115 3508 TC UTRECHT, The Netherlands e-mail: peter@maphist.nl Homepage: MapHist: Genealogy: Elementymology: Columbus Monuments: YYYYYYYYYYYYYYY PER ANGUSTA AD AUGUSTA YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 08:33:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: web5.po.com: www set sender to mcguirk1492@pol.net using -f From: Donald Mcguirk To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: Re: [MapHist] Cuningham's 16th century map of Norwich Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Matthew, The following site at Sheffield Hallam University web server may be of help. www.shu.ac.uk/emls/04-2/kochruli.htm The map is figure 4 in a paper you map find interesting. Whether the map is of good enough quality for study is your judgement call. It can also be accessed directly through www.shu.ac.uk/emls/04-2/map15.gif Good Luck. Don McGuirk ------------------ Reply Separator -------------------- Originally From: "Matthew Champion" Subject: [MapHist] Cuningham's 16th century map of Norwich Date: 08/10/2002 08:50am Dear All I am currently attempting to finish my dissertation for a diploma in Landscape Archaeology at the University of East Anglia. My chosen subject, 'Perspective Maps of the Sixteenth and Early Seventeenth Century; their construction, social context and chronology - with particular reference to London and Norwich', has proven most interesting and I have received a great deal of help and advice from Peter Barber at the British Library. However, with the deadline for submission looming ever closer, I have now come across a slight problem. A large part of my work deals with William Cuningham's map of Norwich which was contained within his book 'The Cosmographical Glasse' published in 1558/9. A few weeks ago my computer system was damaged by lightning and my scanned images of Cuningham's map, along with a lot of other bits and pieces, have now disappeared. I can no longer find the original photograph from which I took the scan. I have ordered a new photograph - but this will take several weeks to be delivered. As I now have only two weeks left before the submission deadline I was wondering if anyone on the Maphist list might be able to point me in the direction of a reasonably high quality copy of the map available on the web? I know it's a bit of a long shot but thought it might be worth a try. Many thanks Matthew Champion _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: jsk@pop.gamewood.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 09:14:03 -0400 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: Joel Kovarsky Subject: Re: [MapHist] What is an atlas?, Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 This topic has been the subject of a published and heavily referenced discussion:

Akerman, JR: From Books with Maps to Books as Maps: The Editor in the Creation of the Atlas Idea. In: Editing Early and Historical Atlases, ed. J. Winearls, Univ. of Toronto Press, 1995, pp. 3-48.

                                Joel Kovarsky

At 10:34 AM 8/10/2002 +0200, you wrote:
Dear Rodney and list

At 21:28 8-8-2002, you wrote:
You say that it is doubtful if the work can be considered an atlas. Is
this based on the quantity [proportion] of text? Or do you have a more
ad hoc definition--perhaps (like Chatelain's Atlas Historique),

In the introduction of vol. I of my edition of Koeman's Atlantes Neerlandici of 1997 I wrote:
An atlas is defined as a book with maps, which  meets the following characteristics:
(1) a collection of printed maps in book form or bound similar to a book with a printed title page; in cases where text is included, the publisher's intention to give the dominance of graphic elements (particularly maps, plans or town views) over textual elements, must be clear, either from the title (expressed by the word "atlas" or not) or from the concept of the work;
(2) the rough uniformity of map format, design, and presentation throughout the work; and
(3) the standardization (generally), from copy to copy in each edition, of composition and arrangement of atlas components.
To be short, in case you have a book with maps and texts, the difference between an atlas and a book-with-maps (not an atlas) is:
- atlas = a book consisting of maps with accompanying texts
- not an atlas = a book consisting of text with accompanying maps.

The quantity of maps, or the proportion of text/maps is not relevant for this definition. The concept of the work makes it an atlas, not the number of maps.

A major indication for the publisher's intention is the title of the work. 'Atlas' or 'Theatrum' usually indicate that the maps are on the first place (thus Chatelain's "Atlas Historique" is an atlas). A clear title is also that of Bertius's pocket atlas: "Tabularum Geographicarum Contractarum Libri Quatuor cum luculentis singularum tabularum explicationibus" (= Four books of reduced geographical maps with clear explications to each map) (thus, the texts explain the maps).
X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: maphist@mail.maphist.nl X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 16:58:50 +0200 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: Peter van der Krogt Subject: Re: [MapHist] What is an atlas?, X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by pop.geog.uu.nl id QAA17523 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 In the original text in the Atlantes Neerlandici is referred to this article by Jim Akerman, as well as to the works of Meurer (Atlantes Colonienses) and Kretschmer & Dörflinger (Atlantes Austriaci). "My" definition is a combination of these. Peter At 15:14 10-8-2002, you wrote: >This topic has been the subject of a published and heavily referenced >discussion: > >Akerman, JR: From Books with Maps to Books as Maps: The Editor in the >Creation of the Atlas Idea. In: Editing Early and Historical Atlases, ed. >J. Winearls, Univ. of Toronto Press, 1995, pp. 3-48. > > Joel Kovarsky YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY Dr Peter van der Krogt Map Historian, Explokart Research Program Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht P.O. Box 80.115 3508 TC UTRECHT, The Netherlands e-mail: peter@maphist.nl Homepage: MapHist: Genealogy: Elementymology: Columbus Monuments: YYYYYYYYYYYYYYY PER ANGUSTA AD AUGUSTA YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: deelong@mail.gci.net Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 06:22:02 -0900 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: deelong@ALASKA.COM (Dee Longenbaugh) Subject: Re: [MapHist] Ricci Map Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Dear John, Just as with books, the Web can throw up erroneous or misleading answers. That's why you check as many references as possible, just as you do with books on any subject. Dee >>A quick troll through Google under "Mateo Ricci Map" produced 34 >>hits. Give it a try, remembering to put your request in quotation >>marks. >> Hope this helps, >> Dee > >I'd be careful. The first one I checked pointed at a picture labeled >"Matteo Ricci's map of the world" that distinctly is not a picture of >the map. > >Take care, >John > >_______________________________________________________________ >MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography >hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. >The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of >the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of >Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for >the views of the author. >List Information: http://www.maphist.nl Dee Longenbaugh deelong@alaska.com _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: day@pop.theworld.com Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 11:23:57 -0400 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: John Day Subject: Re: [MapHist] Ricci Map Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 At 06:22 -0900 8/10/02, Dee Longenbaugh wrote: >Dear John, > Just as with books, the Web can throw up erroneous or misleading >answers. That's why you check as many references as possible, just as you >do with books on any subject. Yes, the Web is far from authoritative!! ;-) I dug around a little more last night after than initial reaction and I got even more concerned, the text information I found on Ricci was reasonably accurate, but not one picture I found that said it was a picture of the Ricci world map was. And one was on a site for a Ricci conference that one would expect to get it right. Two were pictures of the Aleni map and one was a copy of the Verbeist map that the legend said was the 1608 Ricci map. (While there has been conjecture about what this map looks like there is no hard evidence of its appearance other than it was multi-colored and had many improvements over the 1602.) There is misleading and then there is misleading! ;-)) But hopefully, this guy found what he was looking for. Take care, John _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: jsk@pop.gamewood.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 11:38:58 -0400 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: Joel Kovarsky Subject: Re: [MapHist] What is an atlas?, Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 At 04:58 PM 8/10/2002 +0200, you wrote:

In the original text in the Atlantes Neerlandici is referred to this article by Jim Akerman, as well as to the works of Meurer (Atlantes Colonienses) and Kretschmer & Dörflinger (Atlantes Austriaci). "My" definition is a combination of these.

Peter
 
Fair enough. A link to some of your text re: the subject: <http://cartography.geog.uu.nl/research/atlantes.html>. The applicable text is about half-way down the referenced page.

                       Joel Kovarsky


Joel Kovarsky for THE PRIME MERIDIAN
385 Thistle Trail, Danville, VA 24540 USA
Phone: 434/724-1106; Fax: 434/799-0218
email:  jsk@gamewood.net
X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: "Matthew Champion" To: "Maphist" Subject: [MapHist] Cuningham's map of Norwich Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 20:22:15 +0100 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714
Many thanks to all those kind people who replied to my question both on and off list. All was gratefully received and most helpful.
 
A very grateful
Matthew Champion
X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: F.Herbert@RGS.ORG To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: RE: [MapHist] World War II maps Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 14:36:29 +0100 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Both this book and another ('Historical maps of Europe') in the series were listed with annotations - *and their ISBNs given* - in the 'Imago Mundi Bibliography' for vol.53 (2001) of 'Imago Mundi' (ISSN 0308-5694). Francis Herbert (Compiler of 'IM Bibliogr.' since 1976) f.herbert@rgs.org http://www.rgs.org [see 'Collections'/'Unlocking the Archives'] > -----Original Message----- > From: Joel Kovarsky [SMTP:jsk@gamewood.net] > Sent: 09 August 2002 22:37 > To: maphist@geog.uu.nl > Subject: [MapHist] World War II maps > > As there were a number of recent posts dealing with WWII maps, I'd thought > I'd share the reference below. This was just given to me as a gift. It has > reproductions of over 100 maps, all from the Public Record Office at Kew > in west London, which reflect the prior output of several government > departments during wartime. Some are quite intriguing- the two-man X-craft > attack on Tirpitz, several maps of guerrilla movements. Others show > day-to-day movements of several major offensives in the European Theatre, > including Russia. Many of the maps show annotations by various commanders > and/or operational staff. > > Swift, Michael and Sharpe, Michael: Historical Maps of World War II > Europe. PRC Publishing Ltd., London, 2000. > > Joel Kovarsky _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Originating-IP: [131.211.66.95] From: "Robert Braeken" To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: [MapHist] Grand Lama of Tibet and Chinese wind-wagons Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 15:02:25 +0200 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Aug 2002 13:02:25.0729 (UTC) FILETIME=[ABC24310:01C242C9] Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Dear Maphisters: (1) the Grand Lama of Tibet (?) : In d'Anville's "Nouvel Atlas de la Chine" of 1737 appeared the "Carte Generale du Thibet ou Bout-Tan et des pays de Kashgar et Hami". In the top of this map's cartouche a portrait appears of an unidentified man, dressed in what appears to be a robe. He might very well be the Grand Lama of Tibet; or one of the Jesuit priests who supplied the basic data for the map; or...??? I have found no reference to this portrait on the map, or in the atlas itself, or in its accompanying four text-volumes : the "Description géographique, historique, chronologique, politique, et physique de l'empire la Chine et de la Tartarie chinoise" by J.B. Du Halde. Does anybody know for sure who this is ? (2) Chinese (?) wind-wagons: On various 16th and 17th c. maps of China, (beginning with Ortelius' 1584 map of China by the Jesuit Luiz Jorge de Barbuda / Ludovicius Georgius), "wind- / sail-wagons" appear : was the concept of these wagons part of the stock of technical gadgets (clocks, steam-engines etc. ) that the Jesuits brought with them to China, to impress the inhabitants into conversion ; or was it the other way around ? I have checked the verso-texts of the Ortelius and Hondius maps of China, without result. van Linschoten in his Itinerario mentions the wind-wagons in China ; but this in the 1590's, well after the first edition of the Ortelius map. _________________________________________________________________ Chat on line met vrienden en probeer MSN Messenger uit: http://messenger.msn.nl _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Originating-IP: [131.211.66.95] From: "Robert Braeken" To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: [MapHist] Grand Lama of Tibet & Chinese wind-wagons Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 15:05:43 +0200 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Aug 2002 13:05:43.0736 (UTC) FILETIME=[21C7BB80:01C242CA] Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Dear Maphisters: (1) the Grand Lama of Tibet (?) : In d'Anville's "Nouvel Atlas de la Chine" of 1737 appeared the "Carte Generale du Thibet ou Bout-Tan et des pays de Kashgar et Hami". In the top of this map's cartouche a portrait appears of an unidentified man, dressed in what appears to be a robe. He might very well be the Grand Lama of Tibet; or one of the Jesuit priests who supplied the basic data for the map; or...??? I have found no reference to this portrait on the map, or in the atlas itself, or in its accompanying four text-volumes : the "Description géographique, historique, chronologique, politique, et physique de l'empire la Chine et de la Tartarie chinoise" by J.B. Du Halde. Does anybody know for sure who this is ? (2) Chinese (?) wind-wagons: On various 16th and 17th c. maps of China, (beginning with Ortelius' 1584 map of China by the Jesuit Luiz Jorge de Barbuda / Ludovicius Georgius), "wind- / sail-wagons" appear : was the concept of these wagons part of the stock of technical gadgets (clocks, steam-engines etc. ) that the Jesuits brought with them to China, to impress the inhabitants into conversion ; or was it the other way around ? I have checked the verso-texts of the Ortelius and Hondius maps of China, without result. van Linschoten in his Itinerario mentions the wind-wagons in China ; but this in the 1590's, well after the first edition of the Ortelius map. _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5.2 Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 15:54:50 +0200 From: "Paul van den Brink" To: Subject: [MapHist] Reading the World Map X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by pop.geog.uu.nl id PAA17554 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 This morning I received an interesting booklet entitled: "Reading the World Map: Interdisciplinary Perspectives on Pieter van den Keere's Map, Nova Totius Terrarum Orbis Geographica a Hydrographica Tabula (Amsterdam, 1608/36". The first issue of a series of "Occasional Publications" published by the Osher Map Library. As we can read from the cover the purpose of this publication is to "stimulate public interest in and awareness of maps and cartography. It seeks to provide meaningfull contributions to the cartographic literature that can be appreciated by both the layperson and scholar". However, I am not sure if this first publication meets its promising objectives: In general the articles in this first issue seem to be based on a superficial knowledge of Dutch cartography and Dutch history in general. I noticed several historical inaccuracies and, from a bibliographic point of view, I do miss relevant titles of books and articles . It is true that the lay-out of the series does not permit an exhaustive treatment of the subject, but it is highly peculiar that the authors (as did the editors) did not notice the fact that Gunter Schilder (in his Monumenta Cartographice Neerlandica) devoted several observations to this map in particular. A reference also to the "Bibliography of the history of cartography of the Netherlands" (Utrecht, 1993) would not have been out of place. Though I welcome the iniative taken by the Osher Library in exchanging multidisciplinary discussions on a (series of) map(s), it will ( to my opinion) only have a chance of success when historians are prepared to gain a more broaden in-depth knowledge of each others historiographical and bibliographical traditions. Dr. Paul van den Brink Explokart Research Team for the History of Cartography University of Utrecht, The Netherlands P.vandenbrink@geog.uu.nl Paul.vandenBrink@kb.nl _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: adam_eve@henny-savenije.pe.kr X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 23:48:39 +0900 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: Henny Savenije Subject: Re: [MapHist] Grand Lama of Tibet and Chinese wind-wagons Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 On a recently visited site I saw that the "wind wagons" were a Korean invention, they could actually even fly, I doubt if this was true, but the site claimed that during the Hideyoshi invasion these ships were used to sent messages to the front. Saw the site only yesterday, but can't find it back. >(2) Chinese (?) wind-wagons: >On various 16th and 17th c. maps of China, (beginning with Ortelius' 1584 >map of China by the Jesuit Luiz Jorge de Barbuda / Ludovicius Georgius), >"wind- / sail-wagons" appear : was the concept of these wagons part of the >stock of technical gadgets (clocks, steam-engines etc. ) that the Jesuits >brought with them to China, to impress the inhabitants into conversion ; >or was it the other way around ? >I have checked the verso-texts of the Ortelius and Hondius maps of China, >without result. van Linschoten in his Itinerario mentions the wind-wagons >in China ; but this in the 1590's, well after the first edition of the >Ortelius map. Henny (Lee Hae Kang) ----------------------------- All my sites moved So please adjust your bookmarks and links Portal to all my sites http://www.henny-savenije.pe.kr Feel free to discover Korea with Hendrick Hamel (1653-1666) http://www.hendrick-hamel.henny-savenije.pe.kr (in English) In Korean http://www.hendrick-hamel.henny-savenije.pe.kr/indexk2.htm In Dutch http://www.hendrick-hamel.henny-savenije.pe.kr/Dutch Frits Vos Article about Witsen and Eibokken and his first Korean-Dutch dictionary http://www.vos.henny-savenije.pe.kr Korea through Western Cartographic eyes http://www.cartography.henny-savenije.pe.kr (in English) Hwasong the fortress in Suwon http://www.hwasong.henny-savenije.pe.kr The way a ship was rigged: http://www.hendrick-hamel.henny-savenije.pe.kr/shiprigg.htm Old Korea in pictures http://www.oldKorea.henny-savenije.pe.kr Genealogy http://www.genealogy.henny-savenije.pe.kr _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: day@pop.theworld.com Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 11:01:30 -0400 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: John Day Subject: Re: [MapHist] Grand Lama of Tibet and Chinese wind-wagons X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by pop.geog.uu.nl id RAA21169 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 >Dear Maphisters: > >(1) the Grand Lama of Tibet (?) : >In d'Anville's "Nouvel Atlas de la Chine" of 1737 appeared the >"Carte Generale du Thibet ou Bout-Tan et des pays de Kashgar et >Hami". In the top of this map's cartouche a portrait appears of an >unidentified man, dressed in what appears to be a robe. He might >very well be the Grand Lama of Tibet; or one of the Jesuit priests >who supplied the basic data for the map; or...??? I have found no >reference to this portrait on the map, or in the atlas itself, or in >its accompanying four text-volumes : the "Description géographique, >historique, chronologique, politique, et physique de l'empire la >Chine et de la Tartarie chinoise" by J.B. Du Halde. Does anybody >know for sure who this is ? There is a fairly ubiquitous picture of Matteo Ricci in such a robe with a long beard. The picture is in many places: Spence's "Memory Palaces of Matteo Ricci" or Cronin's "Wise Man from the West", etc. Also a search of the web will turn one up as well. > >(2) Chinese (?) wind-wagons: >On various 16th and 17th c. maps of China, (beginning with Ortelius' >1584 map of China by the Jesuit Luiz Jorge de Barbuda / Ludovicius >Georgius), "wind- / sail-wagons" appear : was the concept of these >wagons part of the stock of technical gadgets (clocks, steam-engines >etc. ) that the Jesuits brought with them to China, to impress the >inhabitants into conversion ; or was it the other way around ? Quite likely, it was the other way around. Needham describes such wind wagons in Volume 4 Part 2 of "Science and Civilization in China." >I have checked the verso-texts of the Ortelius and Hondius maps of >China, without result. van Linschoten in his Itinerario mentions the >wind-wagons in China ; but this in the 1590's, well after the first >edition of the Ortelius map. The 1590s is not really all that long. We see copies of the Ricci 1602 map being made all the way into the 19th C. Take care, John Day _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: adam_eve@henny-savenije.pe.kr X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 00:55:05 +0900 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: Henny Savenije Subject: Re: [MapHist] Grand Lama of Tibet & Chinese wind-wagons Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 I found finally with the help of google the following sites about the flying wagon, http://www.kcna.co.jp/item/1998/9802/news02/11.htm >First flying car >Pyongyang, February 11 (KCNA) -- The Korean people made a flying car more >than 400 years ago for fight against the enemy. The bird-shape flying car >was boarded by four people. It was equipped with devices of steering wings >and causing, storing and emitting wind. It took off with the flexible >wings and the jet propulsion by stored air and flew with flap and steering >of the wings. The appearance of the car was far earlier than 1783 when a >man is said to have flown with a balloon for the first time in the world. >According to master O Myong Ho, a researcher of the history institute of >the academy of social sciences, this clearly shows that Korean ancestors >greatly contributed to the development of planes. They used flying cars in >battles against the foreign aggressors. In 1592 when the Imjin Patriotic >War was going on, a Korean army unit encircled by Japanese aggression >troops in Jinju Castle in South Kyongsang Province. At that time the unit >let a flying car fly 12 km for contact with another unit. In 1374, a year >of the Koryo Dynasty (918-1392), Koryo army soldiers flew onto Jeju Island >from boats with balloons and defeated the Japanese enemy. Interesting to read http://www.light1998.com/Secrets-of-the-Vimana/Secrets-of-the-Vimana.htm Similar news http://www.cpj.org/attacks98/1998/Asia/Nkorea.html This one seems more scientific http://www.hinter-net.net/pages/issue1p3a.html Unfortunately among these is not the one I saw before. >(2) Chinese (?) wind-wagons: >On various 16th and 17th c. maps of China, (beginning with Ortelius' 1584 >map of China by the Jesuit Luiz Jorge de Barbuda / Ludovicius Georgius), >"wind- / sail-wagons" appear : was the concept of these wagons part of the >stock of technical gadgets (clocks, steam-engines etc. ) that the Jesuits >brought with them to China, to impress the inhabitants into conversion ; >or was it the other way around ? >I have checked the verso-texts of the Ortelius and Hondius maps of China, >without result. van Linschoten in his Itinerario mentions the wind-wagons >in China ; but this in the 1590's, well after the first edition of the >Ortelius map. Henny (Lee Hae Kang) ----------------------------- All my sites moved So please adjust your bookmarks and links Portal to all my sites http://www.henny-savenije.pe.kr Feel free to discover Korea with Hendrick Hamel (1653-1666) http://www.hendrick-hamel.henny-savenije.pe.kr (in English) In Korean http://www.hendrick-hamel.henny-savenije.pe.kr/indexk2.htm In Dutch http://www.hendrick-hamel.henny-savenije.pe.kr/Dutch Frits Vos Article about Witsen and Eibokken and his first Korean-Dutch dictionary http://www.vos.henny-savenije.pe.kr Korea through Western Cartographic eyes http://www.cartography.henny-savenije.pe.kr (in English) Hwasong the fortress in Suwon http://www.hwasong.henny-savenije.pe.kr The way a ship was rigged: http://www.hendrick-hamel.henny-savenije.pe.kr/shiprigg.htm Old Korea in pictures http://www.oldKorea.henny-savenije.pe.kr Genealogy http://www.genealogy.henny-savenije.pe.kr _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: maphist@mail.maphist.nl X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 21:13:14 +0200 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: Peter van der Krogt Subject: Re: [MapHist] Illustrations to: Grand Lama of Tibet & Chinese wind-wagons X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by pop.geog.uu.nl id VAA26677 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Rob forgot to mention that the illustrations to his query are in the MapHist illustration page: http://www.maphist.nl/illustr.html Peter At 15:05 13-8-2002, you wrote: >Dear Maphisters: > >(1) the Grand Lama of Tibet (?) : >In d'Anville's "Nouvel Atlas de la Chine" of 1737 appeared the "Carte >Generale du Thibet ou Bout-Tan et des pays de Kashgar et Hami". In the top >of this map's cartouche a portrait appears of an unidentified man, dressed >in what appears to be a robe. He might very well be the Grand Lama of >Tibet; or one of the Jesuit priests who supplied the basic data for the >map; or...??? I have found no reference to this portrait on the map, or in >the atlas itself, or in its accompanying four text-volumes : the >"Description géographique, historique, chronologique, politique, et >physique de l'empire la Chine et de la Tartarie chinoise" by J.B. Du >Halde. Does anybody know for sure who this is ? > >(2) Chinese (?) wind-wagons: >On various 16th and 17th c. maps of China, (beginning with Ortelius' 1584 >map of China by the Jesuit Luiz Jorge de Barbuda / Ludovicius Georgius), >"wind- / sail-wagons" appear : was the concept of these wagons part of the >stock of technical gadgets (clocks, steam-engines etc. ) that the Jesuits >brought with them to China, to impress the inhabitants into conversion ; >or was it the other way around ? >I have checked the verso-texts of the Ortelius and Hondius maps of China, >without result. van Linschoten in his Itinerario mentions the wind-wagons >in China ; but this in the 1590's, well after the first edition of the >Ortelius map. > > > > > > >_______________________________________________________________ >MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography >hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. >The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of >the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of >Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for >the views of the author. >List Information: http://www.maphist.nl YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY Dr Peter van der Krogt Map Historian, Explokart Research Program Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht P.O. Box 80.115 3508 TC UTRECHT, The Netherlands e-mail: peter@maphist.nl Homepage: MapHist: Genealogy: Elementymology: Columbus Monuments: YYYYYYYYYYYYYYY PER ANGUSTA AD AUGUSTA YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: day@pop.theworld.com Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 16:09:22 -0400 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: John Day Subject: Re: [MapHist] Illustrations to: Grand Lama of Tibet & Chinese wind-wagons Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 >Rob forgot to mention that the illustrations to his query are in the >MapHist illustration page: http://www.maphist.nl/illustr.html Ahhh, thanks for pointing that out. That is not the picture of Ricci but doubt it is the Grand Lama either. As for the wind wagons, Needham only cites that 18thC sources for the existence of wind wagons, but doesn't say anything about their origins. (He is more concerned with the evolution of the harness.) As far as the depictions, one has to be careful since there was a tendency to draw pictures based on written or oral descriptions, so one might get a very European looking wagon for a Chinese or Korean invention. Take care, John _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 19:57:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Jay Lester Subject: [MapHist] "Women on road to nowhere" To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 That's the headline, certainly not my opinion, but obviously designed as an attention grabber. Interesting article about gender differences in spatial abilities and map reading. The findings of this study are certainly true in our family. http://www.canada.com/national/story.asp?id=390313AD-F327-42CF-A407-7D9EF2EE4B47 Jay L. Chapel Hill, NC __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Originating-IP: [131.211.208.156] From: "Robert Braeken" To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Cc: adam_eve@henny-savenije.pe.kr Subject: Re: [MapHist] Grand Lama of Tibet and Chinese wind-wagons Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 15:50:23 +0200 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Aug 2002 13:50:23.0518 (UTC) FILETIME=[8977C3E0:01C24399] Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 thanks for your reply. In a text on Jesuit activities in China, posted on www.nd.edu/~dharley/HistIdeas/China.html , I found the following reference : " Daniel Kane is currently pursuing a Ph.D. in Asian history at the University of Hawai'i. Though his primary interest lies with Korea and her Chinese ties, a long-held curiosity about maps and a more recent interest in the Jesuits in Asia brought him to this subject." Unfortunately there is no email-addres of Kane, and I would like to put my questions to him : since his and your primary interest is Korea, do you happen to know him/where I can contact him ? Robert Braeken. >From: Henny Savenije >Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl >To: maphist@geog.uu.nl >Subject: Re: [MapHist] Grand Lama of Tibet and Chinese wind-wagons >Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 23:48:39 +0900 > >On a recently visited site I saw that the "wind wagons" were a Korean >invention, they could actually even fly, I doubt if this was true, but the >site claimed that during the Hideyoshi invasion these ships were used to >sent messages to the front. > >Saw the site only yesterday, but can't find it back. > >>(2) Chinese (?) wind-wagons: >>On various 16th and 17th c. maps of China, (beginning with Ortelius' 1584 >>map of China by the Jesuit Luiz Jorge de Barbuda / Ludovicius Georgius), >>"wind- / sail-wagons" appear : was the concept of these wagons part of the >>stock of technical gadgets (clocks, steam-engines etc. ) that the Jesuits >>brought with them to China, to impress the inhabitants into conversion ; >>or was it the other way around ? >>I have checked the verso-texts of the Ortelius and Hondius maps of China, >>without result. van Linschoten in his Itinerario mentions the wind-wagons >>in China ; but this in the 1590's, well after the first edition of the >>Ortelius map. > > >Henny (Lee Hae Kang) >----------------------------- >All my sites moved >So please adjust your bookmarks and links >Portal to all my sites >http://www.henny-savenije.pe.kr >Feel free to discover Korea with Hendrick Hamel (1653-1666) >http://www.hendrick-hamel.henny-savenije.pe.kr (in English) >In Korean >http://www.hendrick-hamel.henny-savenije.pe.kr/indexk2.htm >In Dutch >http://www.hendrick-hamel.henny-savenije.pe.kr/Dutch >Frits Vos Article about Witsen and Eibokken and his first Korean-Dutch >dictionary >http://www.vos.henny-savenije.pe.kr >Korea through Western Cartographic eyes >http://www.cartography.henny-savenije.pe.kr (in English) >Hwasong the fortress in Suwon >http://www.hwasong.henny-savenije.pe.kr >The way a ship was rigged: >http://www.hendrick-hamel.henny-savenije.pe.kr/shiprigg.htm >Old Korea in pictures >http://www.oldKorea.henny-savenije.pe.kr >Genealogy >http://www.genealogy.henny-savenije.pe.kr > > > >_______________________________________________________________ >MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography >hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. >The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of >the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of >Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for >the views of the author. >List Information: http://www.maphist.nl _________________________________________________________________ Chat on line met vrienden en probeer MSN Messenger uit: http://messenger.msn.nl _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Originating-IP: [131.211.208.156] From: "Robert Braeken" To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Cc: Peter@maphist.nl Subject: [MapHist] Grand Lama of Tibet and Chinese wind-wagons Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 16:09:18 +0200 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Aug 2002 14:09:18.0339 (UTC) FILETIME=[2DDFB530:01C2439C] Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 The illustrations to his query are in the MapHist illustration page: http://www.maphist.nl/illustr.html Dear Maphisters: (1) the Grand Lama of Tibet (?) : In d'Anville's "Nouvel Atlas de la Chine" of 1737 appeared the "Carte Generale du Thibet ou Bout-Tan et des pays de Kashgar et Hami". In the top of this map's cartouche a portrait appears of an unidentified man, dressed in what appears to be a robe. He might very well be the Grand Lama of Tibet; or one of the Jesuit priests who supplied the basic data for the map; or...??? I have found no reference to this portrait on the map, or in the atlas itself, or in its accompanying four text-volumes : the "Description géographique, historique, chronologique, politique, et physique de l'empire la Chine et de la Tartarie chinoise" by J.B. Du Halde. Does anybody know for sure who this is ? (2) Chinese (?) wind-wagons: On various 16th and 17th c. maps of China, (beginning with Ortelius' 1584 map of China by the Jesuit Luiz Jorge de Barbuda / Ludovicius Georgius), "wind- / sail-wagons" appear : was the concept of these wagons part of the stock of technical gadgets (clocks, steam-engines etc. ) that the Jesuits brought with them to China, to impress the inhabitants into conversion ; or was it the other way around ? I have checked the verso-texts of the Ortelius and Hondius maps of China, without result. van Linschoten in his Itinerario mentions the wind-wagons in China ; but this in the 1590's, well after the first edition of the Ortelius map. _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5.2 Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 10:12:04 -0400 From: "Tammy Hannibal" To: , Subject: Re: [MapHist] "Women on road to nowhere" X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by pop.geog.uu.nl id QAA29821 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Passed this link on to a few female colleagues, and received a number of colorful responses, this one is my favorite: "guess i'm in the wrong line of work then!!! besides, men have to read maps cause THEY JUST DONT LISTEN!!" All in good fun.... Tammy >>> mapsguy@YAHOO.COM 08/13/02 09:57PM >>> That's the headline, certainly not my opinion, but obviously designed as an attention grabber. Interesting article about gender differences in spatial abilities and map reading. The findings of this study are certainly true in our family. http://www.canada.com/national/story.asp?id=390313AD-F327-42CF-A407-7D9EF2EE4B47 Jay L. Chapel Hill, NC __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: adam_eve@henny-savenije.pe.kr X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 00:54:58 +0900 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: Henny Savenije Subject: Re: [MapHist] Grand Lama of Tibet and Chinese wind-wagons Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 At 10:50 PM 8/14/2002, you wrote: >thanks for your reply. In a text on Jesuit activities in China, posted on >www.nd.edu/~dharley/HistIdeas/China.html , I found the following reference >: " Daniel Kane is currently pursuing a Ph.D. in Asian history at the >University of Hawai'i. Though his primary interest lies with Korea and her >Chinese ties, a long-held curiosity about maps and a more recent interest >in the Jesuits in Asia brought him to this subject." Unfortunately there >is no email-addres of Kane, and I would like to put my questions to him : >since his and your primary interest is Korea, do you happen to know >him/where I can contact him ? >Robert Braeken. I don't know him personally, he wasn't present on the resent world conference of Korean studies but a search on the web brought a lot of articles written by the man, but no eamail or other address. You might try to contact The Center for Korean Studies School of Hawaiian, Asian & Pacific Studies University of Hawai`i at Manoa 1881 East-West Road Honolulu, HI 96822 tel: (808) 956-7041 fax: (808) 956-2213 e-mail: korstudy@hawaii.edu Henny (Lee Hae Kang) ----------------------------- All my sites moved So please adjust your bookmarks and links Portal to all my sites http://www.henny-savenije.pe.kr Feel free to discover Korea with Hendrick Hamel (1653-1666) http://www.hendrick-hamel.henny-savenije.pe.kr (in English) In Korean http://www.hendrick-hamel.henny-savenije.pe.kr/indexk2.htm In Dutch http://www.hendrick-hamel.henny-savenije.pe.kr/Dutch Frits Vos Article about Witsen and Eibokken and his first Korean-Dutch dictionary http://www.vos.henny-savenije.pe.kr Korea through Western Cartographic eyes http://www.cartography.henny-savenije.pe.kr (in English) Hwasong the fortress in Suwon http://www.hwasong.henny-savenije.pe.kr The way a ship was rigged: http://www.hendrick-hamel.henny-savenije.pe.kr/shiprigg.htm Old Korea in pictures http://www.oldKorea.henny-savenije.pe.kr Genealogy http://www.genealogy.henny-savenije.pe.kr _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: day@pop.theworld.com Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 15:40:23 -0400 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: John Day Subject: Re: [MapHist] Grand Lama of Tibet and Chinese wind-wagons Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 At 10:50 PM 8/14/2002, you wrote: thanks for your reply. In a text on Jesuit activities in China, posted on www.nd.edu/~dharley/HistIdeas/China.html , I found the following reference : " Daniel Kane is currently pursuing a Ph.D. in Asian history at the University of Hawai'i. Though his primary interest lies with Korea and her Chinese ties, a long-held curiosity about maps and a more recent interest in the Jesuits in Asia brought him to this subject." Unfortunately there is no email-addres of Kane, and I would like to put my questions to him : since his and your primary interest is Korea, do you happen to know him/where I can contact him ? Robert Braeken. Sorry, but I don't know him either. Sounds as if he were a student of Mungello's. But I concur with Henny, give them a call and see if they know how to get him. Actually, he may have had an article in Mercator's World a year or two ago. All of the references on the website are pretty old. In the meantime, I will include this one for completeness. "The Search for the Origins of the Chinese Manuscripts of Matteo Ricci's Maps" Imago Mundi, Vol 47, 1995. Take care, John I don't know him personally, he wasn't present on the resent world conference of Korean studies but a search on the web brought a lot of articles written by the man, but no eamail or other address. You might try to contact The Center for Korean Studies School of Hawaiian, Asian & Pacific Studies University of Hawai`i at Manoa 1881 East-West Road Honolulu, HI 96822 tel: (808) 956-7041 fax: (808) 956-2213 e-mail: korstudy@hawaii.edu Henny (Lee Hae Kang) ----------------------------- All my sites moved So please adjust your bookmarks and links Portal to all my sites http://www.henny-savenije.pe.kr Feel free to discover Korea with Hendrick Hamel (1653-1666) http://www.hendrick-hamel.henny-savenije.pe.kr (in English) In Korean http://www.hendrick-hamel.henny-savenije.pe.kr/indexk2.htm In Dutch http://www.hendrick-hamel.henny-savenije.pe.kr/Dutch Frits Vos Article about Witsen and Eibokken and his first Korean-Dutch dictionary http://www.vos.henny-savenije.pe.kr Korea through Western Cartographic eyes http://www.cartography.henny-savenije.pe.kr (in English) Hwasong the fortress in Suwon http://www.hwasong.henny-savenije.pe.kr The way a ship was rigged: http://www.hendrick-hamel.henny-savenije.pe.kr/shiprigg.htm Old Korea in pictures http://www.oldKorea.henny-savenije.pe.kr Genealogy http://www.genealogy.henny-savenije.pe.kr _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: maphist@mail.maphist.nl (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 22:52:13 +0200 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl (by way of List-owner MapHist ) Subject: [MapHist] Mercator - man behind the myth Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Non-member submission from [Steve Chilton ] [Apologies for any cross-posting] The 2002 Society of Cartographers Summer School is to be held at Liverpool John Moores from 2-5 Sept 2002, and will consist of a stimulating variety of lectures, workshops, demonstrations, visits and social activities. Highlights: Nicholas Crane will be presenting a paper based on his new book - Mercator: the Man Behind the Myth - and doing a book signing session. Tour of the Hornby Collection of unique, rare books, the famous domed Picton Library, the Audubon Collection & the Local Archive of historic maps & charts. Full details of the conference, including full programme and booking forms - are at: http://www.mdx.ac.uk/www/gem/ss2002/ -------------------------------------------------------- Steve Chilton Learning and Technical Support Unit Manager School of Health and Social Sciences Middlesex University phone/fax: 020 8411 5355 email: steve8@mdx.ac.uk WWW: http://www.mdx.ac.uk/www/socsci/support/contact/allstaff.htm#steve -------------------------------------------------------- Peter van der Krogt List-owner MapHist List-info: http://www.maphist.nl _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: jsk@pop.gamewood.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 18:02:12 -0400 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: Joel Kovarsky Subject: Re: [MapHist] Mercator - man behind the myth Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Apparently this hasn't been released quite yet, and the title will be slightly different. Based on the Amazon.com listing (already there in anticipation):

Mercator: The Man Who Mapped the Planet
by Nicholas Crane (Hardcover - January 2003)
Not yet published (Weidenfeld & Nicholson ?)
List Price: $26.00
Our Price: $18.20
You Save: $7.80 (30%)

              Joel Kovarsky



At 10:52 PM 8/14/2002 +0200, you wrote:
Non-member submission from [Steve Chilton <s.l.chilton@mdx.ac.uk>]

Nicholas Crane will be presenting a paper based on his new book -
Mercator: the Man Behind the Myth - and doing a book signing
session.
X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: adam_eve@henny-savenije.pe.kr X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 13:08:39 +0900 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: Henny Savenije Subject: Re: [MapHist] Grand Lama of Tibet and Chinese wind-wagons X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by pop.geog.uu.nl id GAA14073 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 At 12:54 AM 8/15/2002, you wrote: >I don't know him personally, he wasn't present on the recent world >conference of Korean studies but a search on the web brought a lot of >articles written by the man, but no eamail or other address. You might try >to contact A little bit more questioning led me to the following http://online.mq.edu.au/pub/HIST114/staf.htm Professor Daniel Kane, Professor of Chinese at Macquarie, is the 'China expert' and presenter of the lectures in Chinese history in HIST114. A graduate of the University of Melbourne and of the Australian National University, and an ex-Cultural Attaché at the Australian Embassy in Beijing, he is the presenter of HIST250: Modern Chinese History. http://www.vom.com/lkane/china2001/ September 2, 2001. A special thanks to Daniel Kane who designed this website. E-mail: dkane@vom.com I hope this works out. Henny (Lee Hae Kang) ----------------------------- All my sites moved So please adjust your bookmarks and links Portal to all my sites http://www.henny-savenije.pe.kr Feel free to discover Korea with Hendrick Hamel (1653-1666) http://www.hendrick-hamel.henny-savenije.pe.kr (in English) In Korean http://www.hendrick-hamel.henny-savenije.pe.kr/indexk2.htm In Dutch http://www.hendrick-hamel.henny-savenije.pe.kr/Dutch Frits Vos Article about Witsen and Eibokken and his first Korean-Dutch dictionary http://www.vos.henny-savenije.pe.kr Korea through Western Cartographic eyes http://www.cartography.henny-savenije.pe.kr (in English) Hwasong the fortress in Suwon http://www.hwasong.henny-savenije.pe.kr The way a ship was rigged: http://www.hendrick-hamel.henny-savenije.pe.kr/shiprigg.htm Old Korea in pictures http://www.oldKorea.henny-savenije.pe.kr Genealogy http://www.genealogy.henny-savenije.pe.kr _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 08:15:38 +0100 From: Ashley Baynton-Williams Organization: MapForum.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: Re: [MapHist] Mercator - man behind the myth Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 The English Edition is in print: Nicolas Crane 'Mercator The Man Who Mapped The Planet' (London: Weidenfeld & Nicolson, 2002) ISBN 0 297 64665 5 GBP £20 -- Ashley Baynton-Williams _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: F.Herbert@RGS.ORG To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: RE: [MapHist] Mercator - man behind the myth Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 09:31:22 +0100 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by pop.geog.uu.nl id KAA21953 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Or, for those who might like a fuller description, here is the entry from 'Imago Mundi Bibliography' for vol. 55 (2003):- Mercator : the man who mapped the planet / Nicholas Crane. - London : Weidenfeld & Nicolson, 2002. - xiii,348p., [16]p. of col. plates : ill., maps, portr. ; 24 cm. - Bibliogr. : p.331-338. - Notes to all chapters : p.291-328. - Col. ill. also on dust-jacket. - ISBN 0-297-64665-6 Francis Herbert f.herbert@rgs.org > -----Original Message----- > From: Ashley Baynton-Williams [SMTP:Ashley.bw@BTINTERNET.COM] > Sent: 15 August 2002 08:16 > To: maphist@geog.uu.nl > Subject: Re: [MapHist] Mercator - man behind the myth > > The English Edition is in print: > > Nicolas Crane 'Mercator The Man Who Mapped The Planet' (London: > Weidenfeld & Nicolson, 2002) ISBN 0 297 64665 5 GBP £20 > > -- > Ashley Baynton-Williams > > _______________________________________________________________ > MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography > hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. > The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of > the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of > Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for > the views of the author. > List Information: http://www.maphist.nl _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: krogt@pop.geog.uu.nl X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 13:29:46 +0200 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl (by way of Peter van der Krogt ) Subject: Re: [MapHist] Mercator - man behind the myth Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Non-member submission from ["Catherine Delano-Smith" ] Somethings gone a bit astray here: Nicholas Crane's book has been out = for several months, reviewed in the general press (TLS, Sunday Times, = most recently in the New Scientist 10 August 2002) Catherine Delano-Smith ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Joel Kovarsky=20 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl=20 Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 11:02 PM Subject: Re: [MapHist] Mercator - man behind the myth Apparently this hasn't been released quite yet, and the title will be = slightly different. Based on the Amazon.com listing (already there in = anticipation): Mercator: The Man Who Mapped the Planet=20 by Nicholas Crane (Hardcover - January 2003)=20 Not yet published (Weidenfeld & Nicholson ?) List Price: $26.00 Our Price: $18.20=20 You Save: $7.80 (30%)=20 Joel Kovarsky =20 _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: jsk@pop.gamewood.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 08:03:19 -0400 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: Joel Kovarsky Subject: Re: [MapHist] Mercator - man behind the myth Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 At 01:29 PM 8/15/2002 +0200, you wrote:
Somethings gone a bit astray here: Nicholas Crane's book has been out =
for several months, reviewed in the general press (TLS, Sunday Times, =
most recently in the New Scientist 10 August 2002)

My apologies to the list. Apparently Amazon's entry was out of date. The US publisher was Henry Holt, and the book should soon be available (if not already elsewhere) in paperback. The online Barnes & Noble site shows:


Mercator: The Man Who Mapped the Planet
Usually Available in 1 - 2 weeks.
Nicholas Crane / Hardcover / Henry Holt & Company, Incorporated / June 2002
Our Price:
$18.20, You Save 30%
 


Mercator: The Man Who Mapped the Planet

Not Yet Released.
Nicholas Crane / Paperback / Henry Holt & Company, Incorporated / December 2002
Our Price:
$13.50

X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: "Cook, Andrew" To: "'maphist@geog.uu.nl'" Subject: RE: [MapHist] Mercator - man behind the myth Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 13:40:03 +0100 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714
The recent exchange, on the availability of the Mercator book, is an interesting demonstration of the difference between information and knowledge, a distinction not always apparent in Internet postings.
Andrew Cook
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Joel Kovarsky [mailto:jsk@gamewood.net]
Sent: 15 August 2002 13:03
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Mercator - man behind the myth

At 01:29 PM 8/15/2002 +0200, you wrote:
Somethings gone a bit astray here: Nicholas Crane's book has been out =
for several months, reviewed in the general press (TLS, Sunday Times, =
most recently in the New Scientist 10 August 2002)

My apologies to the list. Apparently Amazon's entry was out of date. The US publisher was Henry Holt, and the book should soon be available (if not already elsewhere) in paperback. The online Barnes & Noble site shows:


Mercator: The Man Who Mapped the Planet
Usually Available in 1 - 2 weeks.
Nicholas Crane / Hardcover / Henry Holt & Company, Incorporated / June 2002
Our Price:
$18.20, You Save 30%
 


Mercator: The Man Who Mapped the Planet

Not Yet Released.
Nicholas Crane / Paperback / Henry Holt & Company, Incorporated / December 2002
Our Price:
$13.50



**********************************************************************


Now open at the British Library Galleries:


Trading Places : the East India Company and Asia (to 22 September)


*********************************************************************

The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be

legally privileged. It is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you

are not the intended recipient, please delete this e-mail and notify

the postmaster@bl.uk : The contents of this e-mail must not be

disclosed or copied without the sender's consent.


The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of

the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the British

Library. The British Library does not take any responsibility for

the views of the author.

*********************************************************************

X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: EandFS@aol.com Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 09:50:20 EDT Subject: Re: [MapHist] Mercator - man behind the myth To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10509 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Ashley: How can I get a copy of Crane's book? Fredric Shauger _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: karrowr@mail.newberry.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 11:48:34 -0500 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: Robert Karrow Subject: [MapHist] Chinese wind waggons Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Those particularly interested in this aspect of the thread might want to look at: James D. Alsop, "The Invention of a self-propelled vehicle in the 16th century," Technology and Culture 22 (1981): 753-56 and my reply, "Was John Marmin's 'Self-propelled vehicle' a sailcar?" Technology and Culture 24 (1983): 493-94. _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: gcarhart@usm.maine.edu To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 14:39:47 -0400 Subject: Re: [MapHist] Reading the World Map X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) X-MIME-Autoconverted: from Quoted-printable to 8bit by pop.geog.uu.nl id UAA18282 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 {SEQ CHAPTER \h \r 1}Dear Dr. van den Brink I received your posting to maphist today and would like the opportunity to reply to it as I am the one who it on your desk during my visit on Monday to the University of Utrecht. I feel that you have missed the and that the others on maphist who have as yet to read œReading the World should have this set >This morning I received an interesting booklet entitled: "Reading the World Map: >Interdisciplinary Perspectives on Pieter van den Keere's Map, Nova Totius >Terrarum Orbis Geographica a Hydrographica Tabula (Amsterdam, 1608/36". The >first issue of a series of "Occasional Publications" published by the Osher Map >Library. >As we can read from the cover the purpose of this publication is to "stimulate public >interest in and awareness of maps and cartography. It seeks to provide meaningfull >contributions to the cartographic literature that can be appreciated by both the >layperson and scholar". œReading the World as is expressed in the editor™s Preface, these readings put forward an understanding this map not from a cartographic or history of cartography point of view, but rather from a non view. The point of this idea was to show to scholars of other disciplines that old maps have a in their teaching and that old maps can be meaningful to disciplines out side of those of cartography the history of cartography. >However, I am not sure if this first publication meets its promising objectives: In >general the articles in this first issue seem to be based on a superficial knowledge >of Dutch cartography and Dutch history in general. It was not a requirement that the scholars be knowledgeable in Dutch cartography or Dutch history. >I noticed several historical inaccuracies and, from a bibliographic point of view, I do >miss relevant titles of books and articles . It is true that the lay-out of the series >does not permit an exhaustive treatment of the subject, but it is highly peculiar that >the authors (as did the editors) did not notice the fact that Gunter Schilder (in his >Monumenta Cartographice Neerlandica) devoted several observations to this map >in particular. A reference also to the "Bibliography of the history of cartography of >the Netherlands" (Utrecht, 1993) would not have been out of place. It should be noted that these papers were given in October of 1994, only a few months after the of Prof. Schilder™s work. That is the writers of the articles were working on them at the same as Prof. Schilder was finishing his work. The paint on the walls of the Osher Map library was hardly dry and acquiring brand new works was at that not upmost in the minds of those in charge. >Though I welcome the iniative taken by the Osher Library in exchanging >multidisciplinary discussions on a (series of) map(s), it will ( to my opinion) only >have a chance of success when historians are prepared to gain a more broaden in- >depth knowledge of each others historiographical and bibliographical traditions. This was only a first attempt at getting other disciplines interested in old maps. George S. Carhart _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: gcarhart@usm.maine.edu To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 16:22:53 -0400 Subject: Re: [MapHist] with corrections Reading the World Map X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Dear Dr. van den Brink I have sent this email one more time as I have had problems with my emailer that was leaving out words. so here it is. I received your posting to maphist today and would like the opportunity to reply to it as I am the one who it on your desk during my visit on Monday to the University of Utrecht. I feel that you have missed point the and that the others on maphist who have as yet to read "Reading the World" should have this set right. >This morning I received an interesting booklet entitled: "Reading the World Map: >Interdisciplinary Perspectives on Pieter van den Keere's Map, Nova Totius >Terrarum Orbis Geographica a Hydrographica Tabula (Amsterdam, 1608/36". The >first issue of a series of "Occasional Publications" published by the Osher Map >Library. >As we can read from the cover the purpose of this publication is to "stimulate public >interest in and awareness of maps and cartography. It seeks to provide meaningfull >contributions to the cartographic literature that can be appreciated by both the >layperson and scholar". "Reading the World" as is expressed in the editor's Preface, these readings put forward an understanding this map not from a cartographic or history of cartography point of view, but rather from a non cartographic or history of cartography view. The point of this idea was to show to scholars of other disciplines that old maps have a in their teaching and that old maps can be meaningful to disciplines out side of those of cartography the history of cartography. >However, I am not sure if this first publication meets its promising objectives: In >general the articles in this first issue seem to be based on a superficial knowledge >of Dutch cartography and Dutch history in general. It was not a requirement that the scholars be knowledgeable in Dutch cartography or Dutch history. >I noticed several historical inaccuracies and, from a bibliographic point of view, I do >miss relevant titles of books and articles . It is true that the lay-out of the series >does not permit an exhaustive treatment of the subject, but it is highly peculiar that >the authors (as did the editors) did not notice the fact that Gunter Schilder (in his >Monumenta Cartographice Neerlandica) devoted several observations to this map >in particular. A reference also to the "Bibliography of the history of cartography of >the Netherlands" (Utrecht, 1993) would not have been out of place. It should be noted that these papers were given in October of 1994, only a few months after the of Prof. Schilder's work. That is the writers of the articles were working on them at the same time as Prof. Schilder was finishing his work. though there was some up-dating dun to the bibliography It was the intent of the editors to change as little as possible of the original text. Further the paint on the walls of the Osher Map library was hardly dry and acquiring brand new works was at that not upmost in the minds of those in charge. >Though I welcome the iniative taken by the Osher Library in exchanging >multidisciplinary discussions on a (series of) map(s), it will ( to my opinion) only >have a chance of success when historians are prepared to gain a more broaden in- >depth knowledge of each others historiographical and bibliographical traditions. This was only a first attempt at getting other disciplines interested in old maps. George S. Carhart _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: seaver@seaver.pobox.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 14:34:41 -0700 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: "Paul S. Seaver" Subject: [MapHist] "Reading the World" Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 I want to add a few words to George Carhart's succinct explanation for the intent behind the publication of "Reading the worl," and his description of the circumstances of its publication. I consider this handsome small volume a useful addition to my home reference library, just like other well-thought-out publications which highlight old maps in an exhibition or in a particular map collection. The map reproductions are useful in themselves, and knowing that they are available in a particular place is equally useful. The short, interdisciplinary articles in the Osher Map Library volume were surely not intended to be the last or most inclusive word on the subject of Pieter van den Keere's work. Any author who thinks he or she has settled a subject for all eternity is in fact a target for disappointment, because there is not one among us who can foretell the contents of future publications. In the case of "Reading the World," the contributing scholars offered sensible opinions based on their own perceptions and on their own background reading -- the latter carefully noted. As far as I am concerned, those who put this work together did it in a professional and scholarly manner. In this day and age, that is no small thing. Kirsten A. Seaver -- _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Originating-IP: [195.193.167.12] From: "Robert Braeken" To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: Re: [MapHist] Chinese wind waggons Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 13:00:52 +0200 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Aug 2002 11:00:53.0131 (UTC) FILETIME=[5AAF1DB0:01C245DD] Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 thanks ;, but neither are available to me here in Holland. Would you be willing to give me the gist/very brief summary of these articles ? Robert Braeken. >From: Robert Karrow >Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl >To: maphist@geog.uu.nl >Subject: [MapHist] Chinese wind waggons >Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 11:48:34 -0500 > >Those particularly interested in this aspect of the thread might want to >look at: > >James D. Alsop, "The Invention of a self-propelled vehicle in the 16th >century," > Technology and Culture 22 (1981): 753-56 > >and my reply, "Was John Marmin's 'Self-propelled vehicle' a sailcar?" >Technology > and Culture 24 (1983): 493-94. > > >_______________________________________________________________ >MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography >hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. >The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of >the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of >Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for >the views of the author. >List Information: http://www.maphist.nl _________________________________________________________________ Chat on line met vrienden en probeer MSN Messenger uit: http://messenger.msn.nl _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-EM-Version: 5, 0, 0, 0 X-EM-Registration: #3003520714B31D032830 X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 5.0.7.9 (Windows) From: "Judith Tyner" To: maphist@geog.uu.nl, "Jay Lester" Subject: RE: [MapHist] "Women on road to nowhere Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 8:35:39 -0700 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 AAAARGH! As a woman who has taught map reading and interpretation for over 30 years, I find these studies frustrating! I have not found any particular gender differences in my classes, in fact women might have a slight edge. What I have noticed is that those who excell in computer programming have a harder time with interpretation, although they can recognize symbols and count them, they seem to have difficulty with recognizing patterns and their significance. However, thanks for the reference. Judith Tyner > [Original Message] > From: Jay Lester > To: > Date: 08/13/2002 7:57:03 PM > Subject: [MapHist] "Women on road to nowhere > > That's the headline, certainly not my opinion, but obviously designed > as an attention grabber. Interesting article about gender differences > in spatial abilities and map reading. The findings of this study are > certainly true in our family. > > http://www.canada.com/national/story.asp?id=390313AD-F327-42CF-A407-7D9EF2EE 4B47 > > > Jay L. > Chapel Hill, NC > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs > http://www.hotjobs.com > _______________________________________________________________ > MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography > hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. > The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of > the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of > Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for > the views of the author. > List Information: http://www.maphist.nl --- Judith Tyner --- jztyner@earthlink.net --- EarthLink: It's your Internet. _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: day@pop.theworld.com Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 15:00:24 -0400 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: John Day Subject: RE: [MapHist] "Women on road to nowhere Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 >AAAARGH! > As a woman who has taught map reading and interpretation for over 30 >years, I find these studies frustrating! I have not found any particular >gender differences in my classes, in fact women might have a slight edge. >What I have noticed is that those who excell in computer programming have a >harder time with interpretation, although they can recognize symbols and >count them, they seem to have difficulty with recognizing patterns and >their significance. Odd, since programming is all about noticing patterns, at least good programming is. That is something worth exploring. Take care, John _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 12:20:49 -0700 Subject: Re: [MapHist] "Women on road to nowhere From: "Penny L. Richards" To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 John Day wrote, in response to Judith Tyner's assessment of her students, >Odd, since programming is all about noticing patterns, at least good >programming is. I'd guess it's to do with there being various kinds of patterns--numerical/sequential pattern recognition is probably a strength for programmers, while spatial/visual pattern recognition is probably a strength for mapreaders. These strengths don't necessarily co-exist in the same mind. And while there may be general trends in how these strengths manifest in men vs. women, I assume it's (a) the kind of trending that has lots of exceptions, and (b) at least partly enculturated (gained from different life experiences), rather than hardwired from birth. Penny L. Richards PhD Research Scholar, UCLA Center for the Study of Women Co-editor, H-Education and H-Disability turley2@earthlink.net _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: day@pop.theworld.com Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 16:21:18 -0400 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: John Day Subject: Re: [MapHist] "Women on road to nowhere Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 >John Day wrote, in response to Judith Tyner's assessment of her students, > > >Odd, since programming is all about noticing patterns, at least good > >programming is. > >I'd guess it's to do with there being various kinds of >patterns--numerical/sequential pattern recognition is probably a strength >for programmers, while spatial/visual pattern recognition is probably a >strength for mapreaders. These strengths don't necessarily co-exist in the >same mind. And while there may be general trends in how these strengths >manifest in men vs. women, I assume it's (a) the kind of trending that has >lots of exceptions, and (b) at least partly enculturated (gained from >different life experiences), rather than hardwired from birth. So you think it is the old dichotomy between the algebraists and the geometers?! I doubt that it is gender based, but there is a general feeling in CS that good designers are born not bred. I have never been able to teach some one to do good design. I can help them hone their skill, but it they don't already have some, no amount of teaching seems to help. There is a chapter in Herb Simon's Society of Mind that speaks to this. He says that teachers will tell you that there are some children that when you show them things they are always just a collection of techniques, whereas there are other children who immediately begin to assemble them into larger structures. The problem with programming is that it is so easy that anyone can do it whether they should or shouldn't and often volume is mistaken for quality. How is that for an off-topic rant! ;-) Have a good afternoon. John _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl Reply-To: "Rodney Shirley" From: "Rodney Shirley" To: Subject: Re: [MapHist] What is an atlas?, Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 21:28:27 +0100 Organization: UUNET X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by kwek.eatserver.nl id g7IKIax07099 Peter Thank you for reminding me of Jim Akerman's essay which I have in the Joan Winearls book on my shelves here. For my British Library project, collating the maps in their pre-1800 atlases, which is nearing completion, a somewhat wider and quite arbitrary definition was taken at the beginning in full discussion with the BL. This was to include more-or-less all works with 9 or more maps under the term `atlas'. It's somewhat a misuse of the word `atlas' (as more generally defined) but opens up a wider range of cartographic material. Best regards Rodney Shirley rws@dial.pipex.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter van der Krogt" To: Sent: 10 August 2002 15:58 Subject: Re: [MapHist] What is an atlas?,In the original text in the Atlantes Neerlandici is referred to this article by Jim Akerman, as well as to the works of Meurer (Atlantes Colonienses) and Kretschmer & Dörflinger (Atlantes Austriaci). "My" definition is a combination of these. Peter X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 19:56:38 +1200 From: Michael Ross Subject: [MapHist] World / Asia-Pacific Print article | Email To: Australasian Map Circle Com , Maphist X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Interesting Financial times article: "Relations between Japan and South Korea took an unusual hydrographic twist on Friday after Japan lodged an official protest over moves to change the name of the body of water that separates the two countries from the Sea of Japan to the East Sea. Japan lodged its protest with the International Hydrographic Organisation, a Monaco-based inter-governmental group, over its decision to omit the Sea of Japan from the drafts of its signature publication, Limits of Oceans and Seas." Full story at: http://news.ft.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=FT.com/StoryFT/FullStory&c =StoryFT&cid=1028185790084&p=1012571727169 Michael -------------------------------------------- Michael Ross Voice: +64.21.897.889 Fax: +64.21.218.2166 michael.ross@clear.net.nz _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: maphist@mail.maphist.nl (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 10:33:07 +0200 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl (by way of List-owner MapHist ) Subject: [MapHist] Copenhagen Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Non-member submission from ["Jens P. Bornholt" ] Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 19:20:38 -0500 Can anybody tell me of any good Museums/dealers for maps in Copenhagen? I would appreciate any info. Jens P.Bornholt _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: hd@kb.dk Subject: Re: [MapHist] Copenhagen To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.07a May 14, 2001 Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 11:32:32 +0200 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on Notes00/Kglbib(Release 5.0.6a |January 17, 2001) at 18-08-2002 11:32:33, Itemize by SMTP Server on Notes02/Kglbib(Release 5.0.6a |January 17, 2001) at 18-08-2002 11:32:34, Serialize by Router on Notes02/Kglbib(Release 5.0.6a |January 17, 2001) at 18-08-2002 11:32:37, Serialize complete at 18-08-2002 11:32:37 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Could I be so unpolite to recommend my own museum/library at The National Library in the Center of Copenhagen we have open acces from 10- 17 wedensday 12-19 after spt 1, if you need to see some of the valuable material you need a admission ticket which demands some kind of purpose with your visit like a research project. Map Dealers are quit few now in Copenhagen there are som antiqurian dealers in the center, you could have more information when you visit our library. Henrik Dupont Map Curator The Royal Library Copnehagen Denmark hd@kb.dk _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Originating-IP: [207.203.64.2] From: "Dana Brown" To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: [MapHist] detailed topographical map of Eastern Egypt Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 17:57:19 +0000 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Aug 2002 17:57:19.0725 (UTC) FILETIME=[B24489D0:01C246E0] Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 I am looking for a good detailed topographical map of Eastern Egypt. More specifically from Just West of El Fayyum Eastward to the East side of the Gulf of Suez. Do you have any suggestions? Thanks for your assistance. Dana E. Brown DanaeBrown@hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 04:09:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Jay Lester Subject: [MapHist] Request help on ID of c1819 GA atlas map To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Hello, For a few years I have been perplexed by a map of Georgia engraved by Enoch Gridley that appears to be from a Mathew Carey atlas, but is different than all other examples I have seen and has features suggesting a later date of publication than is commonly reported for Carey atlases (1814,1817,1818). Anyone interested in identifying the atlas of origin for this map can get started by pasting this URL into your web browser: http://www.oldmapshop.com You'll find a description of the major differences between the map in question and the "usual" Carey map of Georgia and an image of the map. Thanks for your help. ===== Jay Lester Chapel Hill, NC mapsguy@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: Andy.Skarstein@uk.neceur.com Subject: [MapHist] Re: Jerusalem as center of world (MapHist-digest V1 #139) To: maphist-digest@geog.uu.nl X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.7 March 21, 2001 Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 17:10:54 +0100 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on SLG-HERCULES/E/NEC(Release 5.0.8 |June 18, 2001) at 19/08/2002 17:10:55, Itemize by SMTP Server on ldn-hermes/E/NEC(Release 5.0.10 |March 22, 2002) at 08/19/2002 05:10:55 PM, Serialize by Router on ldn-hermes/E/NEC(Release 5.0.10 |March 22, 2002) at 08/19/2002 05:10:56 PM, Serialize complete at 08/19/2002 05:10:56 PM Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 >From an interested and very amateur 'lurker' on this list; is the mosaic map at Madaba in Jordan relevant to the query ? (discovered 1896 and dated between 560 & 565 AD) Hope I'm not duplicating anything here. andy.skarstein@uk.neceur.com _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: karrowr@mail.newberry.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 12:43:14 -0500 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: Robert Karrow Subject: [MapHist] Re: Chinese wind waggons Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 In response to Robert Braeken's request for a summary of the wind waggon articles: James D. Alsop's "Research Note" describes a petition of one John Marmin to Henry VIII of England, in which he offers (as a sort of bribe or inducement) to provide the king with "a wagon, which will be a gift very meet for the Queen's grace, in the same wagon may sit two persons with ease, and it is to go without horse or other cattle. I suppose it cost 20 angel nobles in Flanders." Alsop goes on to give some background on Marmin, who had worked in the Low Countries, and states that "it is almost certain the invention originated in the Netherlands." He concludes that "it was presumably a mechanical invention, possibly depending on pedals or a similar device." In my reply, also published as a "Research Note," I suggested that "the vehicle in question was a wind-driven wagon or sailcar. Such devices were known in China from at least the 6th century, and the "sailing chariot" built in the Netherlands by Simon Stevin in 1600 is very well documented." My note reproduced the drawings of sailcars on the Barbuda (Ortelius) map of China, 1584, and suggested some mechanisms by which knowledge of Chinese sailcars might have reached the Low Countries by the 1530s. _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: "Davies, Surekha" To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: [MapHist] Images of people on maps: proposed conference session, ICHC 2003 Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 10:18:41 +0100 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 We are hoping to submit a proposal for a session on 'Cartographic Bodies' at the 20th International Conference on the History of Cartography (15-20 June 2003, Cambridge, Mass. & Portland, Maine). It will explore images of human figures on maps: their functions, development, sources, interaction with cartographic and textual components, etc. We are looking for a third speaker to join our session. Ideally, this person would wish to speak on images of people in early modern European maps of Asia in the broadest sense, since we study images of Africans and Amerindians. However, we would like to make contact with anyone working on images of people on maps, regardless of whether they can attend the conference / are working on Asia. If you would like more details, please email us. Many thanks, Surekha Davies (surekha.davies@bl.uk) [images of Amerindians] Diane Butler (dsb16@cornell.edu) [images of Africans] ********************************************************************** Now open at the British Library Galleries: Trading Places : the East India Company and Asia (to 22 September) ********************************************************************* The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete this e-mail and notify the postmaster@bl.uk : The contents of this e-mail must not be disclosed or copied without the sender's consent. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the British Library. The British Library does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. ********************************************************************* _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: "tony campbell" To: "*MapHist" Subject: [MapHist] My email address Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 10:22:01 +0100 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 List colleagues If you happen to have an email address stored for me, please ensure that is the one below. I will shortly be closing my @bl.uk account. Don't forget that updates to the contact details given in the published "Who's Who in the History of Cartography (D9)" [at least those that have been notified to me] are recorded on the 'D9 updates' page on the 'Map History' site < http://ihr.sas.ac.uk/maps/d9update.html >. If you were in D9, have changed your address/phone/email, have not yet told me about them, and are happy for me to mount those details, please let me have them. Thank you Tony Campbell t.campbell@ockendon.clara.co.uk _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 13:10:05 +0200 From: Paul van den Brink Organization: Utrecht University X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: [MapHist] Re: Reading the World Map Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Dear mr. Carhart

No mr. Carhart,  I do not  think I missed the point. My  purpose was to confront the editors of "Reading the map" (or is it "Reading the World Map" (according to the titlepage?)  with the shortcomings of their own objectives. I did not, as mrs Severs seems to suggest, throw any doubts on the professional and scholarly manner by which the editors dealt with this material. From my own experience I do understand the difficulty of that task. I did however  question the way they worked out their starting point in this publication, promising  "a highly innovative approach, ... (to) exploit the extraordinary power of maps to portray and illuminate the civilizations that produced them". In my message  I tried  to underline the intrisic historiographical pitfalls of this particular approach, essentially since we are dealing with  a publication almost exclusively based on English literature, and leaving aside (even after updating the bibliography!) the ideas of the leading author on the field.

Setting aside the fact that I'm realy puzzled by the fact how you can portray and illuminate the very complex Dutch civilization of the 17th century without (as in your own words) being "knowledgeable in Dutch cartography or Dutch history", I wanted to point out  the fact that the interdisciplinary treatment of old maps, in and out of their specific historical context, is not as unique, new and innovative as is stated by the editors. A solid literature search, and an up-to-date examination of Dutch and other continental studies on the history of cartography (and related disciplines) would have brought forward more broadening perspectives, some of them dating back to the early 1900's. This is, again in my opinion, a serious omission. Starting from the fact that more than seven years expired between presentation and publication, I conclude that  the editors missed the opportunity to raise  this booklett to the level it deserves.

With best regards
 

Dr. Paul van den Brink
Explokart Research Team for the History of Cartography
University of Utrecht
The Netherlands

 
 
 
  X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: "tony campbell" To: "*Maps-L" , "*MapHist" , "*Lismaps" , "*Liber-GdC" Subject: [MapHist] Oddens' Bookmarks reaches 20,000 Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 18:16:23 +0100 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 [posted to MapHist, lismaps, Maps-L, LiberGdC - please excuse duplication] I have just noticed - Roelof is far too modest to mention it himself - that his benchmark site, Oddens' Bookmarks, has now reached the massive total of 20,000 links. I am sure that others would want to join me in publicly congratulating, and thanking, him for continuing, almost every single day, to bring twenty or more sites to our attention. Most of his links are, as would be expected, current ones. But I am very much aware of how much my own 'Map History' site depends on what he unearths. Well done Roelof. And please don't tire or grow old. Tony Campbell t.campbell@ockendon.clara.co.uk _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: "Boardman, Richard" To: "'maphist@geog.uu.nl'" Subject: [MapHist] scanners Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 15:22:48 -0400 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Does anyone have experience with or suggestions for hand held scanners? The e-mail reference questions I get often require a map to go along with the text-usually from a large city atlas. Since I can't plunk one of these down on the copy machine, I'm limited to those few that are on microfilm. Having a larger hand-held scanner would enable me to send the map right along with the text. Thoughts about capability, size, price, etc or suggestions are appreciated. Thanks Rich Boardman Free Library of Philadelphia boardmanr@library.phila.gov _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108 Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 20:21:36 -0500 Subject: [MapHist] ICHC Panel: Cartography, Capital, and the State From: "Ryan J. Carey" To: CC: "Ryan J. Carey" Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Greetings Map-histers: I would like to organize a panel for the International History of Cartography conference, June 15-20, 2003 in Cambridge Massachusetts and Portland Maine. My proposed panel, entitled "Paper Landscapes: Cartography, Capital, and The State," would address the role that geographic and cartographic information played in the combined efforts of the state and capital to integrate the subjects, markets, and resources of colonial spaces. The purpose of the panel would be to move beyond the largely contextual analysis of maps (maps as a reflection of ideology, society, or cultural contexts) and begin to address the various ways that maps constituted historical change--literally the ways in which maps impacted society and subjects throughout history. My paper, entitled "From Paper Landscapes to Property Rights: Geographic Information and the Vocabulary of Capital" analyzes the ways in which industrial capital created, manipulated, and codified geographic information to create a railroad connection between the Pacific Northwest and the rest of the United States. I argue that geographic information became a common vocabulary between different corporate entities struggling to obtain control of the Columbia river valley, as well as a means for industrial capital to converse with the state in what had by the late nineteenth-century become a largely privatized project of western expansion. Railroad corporations monopolized trade in the Pacific Northwest by engaging the legal apparatus governing railroad expansion, transforming geographic information into exclusively held property rights. For those interested in joining me in this panel, please send a brief abstract for a paper topic and your contact information to: ryan.carey@mail.utexas.edu I look forward to hearing from you. Sincerely, Ryan Carey /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ Ryan J. Carey, Ph.D. Candidate Instructor, History Department University of Texas, at Austin 1302 West 39 1/2 Street Austin, Texas 78756 512-323-0048 ryan.carey@mail.utexas.edu http://www.utexas.edu/courses/his315k/carey/ /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Originating-IP: [65.102.254.235] From: "Lisa Davis Allen" To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: Re: [MapHist] My email address Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 22:19:38 -0600 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Aug 2002 04:19:38.0637 (UTC) FILETIME=[F6D1DBD0:01C248C9] Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Fellow Maphisters' Although this note does not apply to WWHC, Tony's message reminded me that there may be those of you out there that might need my updated address. I have resigned from my position at the University of Texas at Tyler and accepted an art history position at the University of Colorado at Denver. The weather is cooler and the scenery is breath-taking. After a long and trying move with two sons and a dog, I am settled and ready to get back to the business of art and cartography. Please note my new address: Dr. Lisa Davis Allen Visual Arts Dept. College of Arts and Media University of Colorado at Denver Campus Box 17 PO Box 173364 Denver, CO 80217-3364 lda_cud@msn.com From: "tony campbell" >Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl >To: "*MapHist" >Subject: [MapHist] My email address >Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 10:22:01 +0100 > >List colleagues > >If you happen to have an email address stored for me, please ensure that is >the one below. I will shortly be closing my @bl.uk account. > >Don't forget that updates to the contact details given in the published >"Who's Who in the History of Cartography (D9)" [at least those that have >been notified to me] are recorded on the 'D9 updates' page on the 'Map >History' site < http://ihr.sas.ac.uk/maps/d9update.html >. > >If you were in D9, have changed your address/phone/email, have not yet told >me about them, and are happy for me to mount those details, please let me >have them. > >Thank you > >Tony Campbell >t.campbell@ockendon.clara.co.uk > >_______________________________________________________________ >MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography >hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. >The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of >the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of >Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for >the views of the author. >List Information: http://www.maphist.nl _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sent: 21 Aug 2002 12:06:42 GMT From: "Jeremy W. Crampton" To: Subject: [MapHist] ICHC Panel on AHR Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 08:10:59 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Dear maphisters, I would like to suggest that a panel marking the 50th anniversary of Arthur Robinson's Elements of Cartography (1st edn., 1953) be organized for the conference next year. Elements has been a foundational textbook in US cartography and elsewhere around the world. Most currently practioning cartographers can tell you which edition they were taught with (mine was the 5th!). The book was influenced by early 20th century thought in cartography (especially the American Geographical Society) and of course ARH was interested in the history of thematic mapping himself. And in turn it set the pace for cartography itself (along with Look of Maps). I personally don't feel I am the one to organize this, although I've mentioned it to Mark Monmonier and David W. I'm not proposing a session of remembrances, but rather using the occasion as a marker into the history of cartography in the 20th century, and how the work of Raisz, the 1:1million map, the AGS, and especially J.K. Wright in statistical mapping was carried forward (eg., into GIS). Does anyone think this is a good idea or wish to carry it forward? --Jeremy _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 17:25:43 +0300 From: Alexey Vladimirovich Postnikov Organization: Russian Academy of Sciences X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en,ru To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: Re: [MapHist] ICHC Panel on AHR Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 It is an excellent idea!!! Alexey Postnikov "Jeremy W. Crampton" wrote: > Dear maphisters, > > I would like to suggest that a panel marking the 50th anniversary of Arthur > Robinson's Elements of Cartography (1st edn., 1953) be organized for the > conference next year. > > Elements has been a foundational textbook in US cartography and elsewhere > around the world. Most currently practioning cartographers can tell you > which edition they were taught with (mine was the 5th!). The book was > influenced by early 20th century thought in cartography (especially the > American Geographical Society) and of course ARH was interested in the > history of thematic mapping himself. And in turn it set the pace for > cartography itself (along with Look of Maps). > > I personally don't feel I am the one to organize this, although I've > mentioned it to Mark Monmonier and David W. I'm not proposing a session of > remembrances, but rather using the occasion as a marker into the history of > cartography in the 20th century, and how the work of Raisz, the 1:1million > map, the AGS, and especially J.K. Wright in statistical mapping was carried > forward (eg., into GIS). > > Does anyone think this is a good idea or wish to carry it forward? > > --Jeremy > > _______________________________________________________________ > MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography > hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. > The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of > the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of > Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for > the views of the author. > List Information: http://www.maphist.nl _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: maphist@mail.maphist.nl X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 17:24:22 +0200 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: List-owner MapHist Subject: [MapHist] "Reading the World" Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Non-member submission from [Matthew Edney ] Date sent: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 14:45:49 -0500 (sorry, the original message seems to be lost, Matthew sent it again privately to me and asked me to send it to the list, PvdK). Dear All: Paul van den Brink has perhaps misunderstood the purpose of the first occasional publication of the Osher Library Associates, "Reading the World: Interdisciplinary Perspectives on Pieter van den Keere's Map, Nova Totius Terrarum Orbis Geographica ac Hydrographica Tabula (Amsterdam, 1608/36)." Perhaps the purpose and scope of the publication was not clearly defined in the preface. At the conference which inaugurated the Osher Map Library and Smith Center for Cartographic Education at the University of Southern Maine in October 1994, faculty members from various departments of the university (none of whom had any particular expertise in cartographic history) were asked to give short presentations on the interpretation of old maps from their own, non-cartographic vantage points. To give a common thread to the session, the faculty were all asked to respond to the same map: Pieter van den Keere's world map of 1608 (in an impression from 1636). The purpose was thus twofold: (1) to demonstrate to the audience (mostly members of the general public) that maps can be investigated from many different perspectives; and (2) to demonstrate to the participants and other faculty of the University of Southern Maine, that the maps collected in the Osher Map Library were not esoteric treasures to be hoarded but complex intellectual documents which can aid in their own teaching and research. That is, the presentations were not intended to provide an expert or otherwise comprehensive analysis of the particular map from the "history of cartography" perspective. To popularize the study of old maps still further, the Osher Library Associates (the library's friends' group) undertook to publish the presentations (for which the library provided access to university resources). The intent, as with the future publications that are planned, is primarily to "stimulate public interest in and awareness of maps and cartography" (emphasis added; also quoted by Paul) and to broaden the appeal and study of maps beyond the strictly "cartographic" community. We think that they will be of interest to academics, and will perhaps help some academics, but they are not peer-refereed! Of course, our hope is that we can convert faculty to the history of cartography. If we succeed, and those faculty go on to examine maps from a more professional standpoint, and publish their results in academic books and journals, then I would fully expect them to adhere to established standards. At that point, Paul's complaints would clearly be completely warranted and justified. Paul's last comment suggests that he has interpreted this publication as part of a larger problem which he has mentioned previously on maphist, specifically the historians' lack of awareness of other historiographical and bibliographical traditions. I cannot agree more. Perhaps Paul might organize a session on this issue for the next international conference on the history of cartography? All the best, Matthew ------- End of forwarded message ------- ----------------------------------------------------------- Matthew Edney Associate Professor (207) 780-4767 Geography-Anthropology fax (207) 780-5310 American & New England Studies edney@usm.maine.edu check it out: http://usm.maine.edu/maps/ http://usm.maine.edu/maps/edney/ Osher Map Library & Smith Center for Cartographic Education University of Southern Maine P.O. Box 9301, Portland, ME 04104-9301 ----------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: "Evelyn Edson" To: Subject: RE: [MapHist] My email address Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 11:41:14 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Hi, Tony: Our telephone area code has changed, as below-thanks to all those people with mobiles. My home address is also different: now 268 Springtree Lane, Scottsville, VA 24590. This is not a move, but the assigning of street names and numbers to all of us in Fluvanna County. Makes me think of Daniel Smail's book on Marseilles! While I'm writing to you, I got very little response from my Byzantine portolan posting last week. If the information is correct, it would be a reference to the existence of a portolan chart of the Dalmatian and north Italian coasts from c. 1100. What do you think? Or is this something everyone else already knows about? Evelyn Evelyn Edson Professor of History Piedmont Virginia Community College 501 College Drive Charlottesville, VA 22902 (434) 961-5384 _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: woodfin@archone.tamu.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0 Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 12:40:22 -0500 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: Tom Woodfin Subject: Re: [MapHist] "Reading the World" Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Matthew, your efforts are to be applauded for what we at large state universities would term "outreach": the sharing of expertise and knowledge to the university and citizenry as a way of demonstrating that academics contribute a useful and valuable dimension to the culture. Getting the Osher more prominently considered within your university is a critical first step. In landscape architecture we do similar 'service projects' every semester and while they are not 'peer-reviewed' they are valued highly by the communities who receive the ideas and drawings of students' work. I realize your publication is NOT a student work and much more academically-elevated but outreach begins within the university community and then to the public beyond. The Newberry, NYPL, Library of Congress and other all other repositories of cartographic historical documentation recognize these kinds of efforts and participate in them as well. I am pleased to see your leadership at the Osher in the same light. Peter's comment is germane to the paucity of the spatial portrayal of history demonstrated by many historians. I would suggest that almost every effort helps to part the shadows of ignorance, particularly to those whose responsibilities include expansion of endowments and programs as well as archival protection of documents. As a neophyte to the history of cartography, I find the erudite historigraphic expertise within this MAPHIST community typically intimidating, useful but intimidating. _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: krogt@pop.geog.uu.nl X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 09:46:04 +0200 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: Peter van der Krogt Subject: Re: [MapHist] "Reading the World" Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Tom At 19:40 21-8-2002, you wrote: >Peter's comment is germane to the paucity of the spatial portrayal of >history demonstrated by many historians. The only comment I made, was that Matthew's message was a week delayed. So I don't know what you mean with this remark. Peter van der Krogt YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY Dr Peter van der Krogt Map Historian, Explokart Research Program Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht P.O. Box 80.115 3508 TC UTRECHT, The Netherlands e-mail: peter@maphist.nl Homepage: MapHist: Genealogy: Elementymology: Columbus Monuments: YYYYYYYYYYYYYYY PER ANGUSTA AD AUGUSTA YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: F.Herbert@RGS.ORG To: maphist@geog.uu.nl, amcircle@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [MapHist] World / Asia-Pacific Print article | Email Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 10:24:07 +0100 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 At IFLA's 68th General Conference this week in Glasgow (Tuesday morning, to be precise, during the Section of Geography and Map Libraries' session) a group of Koreans asked to make an announcement: in order to distribute the publication below (at least, they didn't stay long for the session!). East Sea in world maps / [writers: LEE Ki-suk, KIM Shin, SOH Jung-chul]. - Seoul : The Society for East Sea, April 2002 printing. - 126p. : ill. (maps) ; 30 cm. - "This book is the outcome of strenuous efforts made by the Society for East Sea ... to determine the historically correct name for the sea ... and analyzes the results of a study of old world maps preserved in the British National Library [sic]" - 'Foreword'. - ISBN 89-9529-420-6 'Strenous efforts' indeed also to highjack meetings, one might query ... Francis Herbert (well - at least I got a free copy of the publication for a Society with no government support since 1999) f.herbert@rgs.org http://www.rgs.org [see 'Collections'/'Unlocking the Archives'] > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Ross [SMTP:michael.ross@clear.net.nz] > Sent: 18 August 2002 08:57 > To: Australasian Map Circle Com; Maphist > Subject: [MapHist] World / Asia-Pacific Print article | Email > > Interesting Financial times article: > > "Relations between Japan and South Korea took an unusual hydrographic > twist > on Friday after Japan lodged an official protest over moves to change the > name of the body of water that separates the two countries from the Sea of > Japan to the East Sea. > > Japan lodged its protest with the International Hydrographic Organisation, > a > Monaco-based inter-governmental group, over its decision to omit the Sea > of > Japan from the drafts of its signature publication, Limits of Oceans and > Seas." > > Full story at: > > http://news.ft.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=FT.com/StoryFT/FullStory > &c > =StoryFT&cid=1028185790084&p=1012571727169 > > Michael > > > -------------------------------------------- > Michael Ross > Voice: +64.21.897.889 > Fax: +64.21.218.2166 > michael.ross@clear.net.nz > > > > _______________________________________________________________ > MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography > hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. > The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of > the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of > Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for > the views of the author. > List Information: http://www.maphist.nl _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: adam_eve@henny-savenije.pe.kr X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 19:22:13 +0900 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: Henny Savenije Subject: RE: [MapHist] World / Asia-Pacific Print article | Email Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 I pointed them to my cartography website but they never replied, and to my surprise I found a lot of my material back, without reference, well such is life in Korea At 06:24 PM 8/22/2002, you wrote: >At IFLA's 68th General Conference this week in Glasgow (Tuesday morning, to >be precise, during the Section of Geography and Map Libraries' session) a >group of Koreans asked to make an announcement: in order to distribute the >publication below (at least, they didn't stay long for the session!). > >East Sea in world maps / [writers: LEE Ki-suk, KIM Shin, SOH Jung-chul]. - >Seoul : The Society for East Sea, April 2002 printing. - 126p. : ill. (maps) >; 30 cm. - "This book is the outcome of strenuous efforts made by the >Society for East Sea ... to determine the historically correct name for the >sea ... and analyzes the results of a study of old world maps preserved in >the British National Library [sic]" - 'Foreword'. - ISBN 89-9529-420-6 > >'Strenous efforts' indeed also to highjack meetings, one might query ... > >Francis Herbert (well - at least I got a free copy of the publication for a >Society with no government support since 1999) >f.herbert@rgs.org >http://www.rgs.org [see 'Collections'/'Unlocking the Archives'] > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Michael Ross [SMTP:michael.ross@clear.net.nz] > > Sent: 18 August 2002 08:57 > > To: Australasian Map Circle Com; Maphist > > Subject: [MapHist] World / Asia-Pacific Print article | Email > > > > Interesting Financial times article: > > > > "Relations between Japan and South Korea took an unusual hydrographic > > twist > > on Friday after Japan lodged an official protest over moves to change the > > name of the body of water that separates the two countries from the Sea of > > Japan to the East Sea. > > > > Japan lodged its protest with the International Hydrographic Organisation, > > a > > Monaco-based inter-governmental group, over its decision to omit the Sea > > of > > Japan from the drafts of its signature publication, Limits of Oceans and > > Seas." > > > > Full story at: > > > > http://news.ft.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=FT.com/StoryFT/FullStory > > &c > > =StoryFT&cid=1028185790084&p=1012571727169 > > > > Michael > > > > > > -------------------------------------------- > > Michael Ross > > Voice: +64.21.897.889 > > Fax: +64.21.218.2166 > > michael.ross@clear.net.nz > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________________________ > > MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography > > hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. > > The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of > > the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of > > Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for > > the views of the author. > > List Information: http://www.maphist.nl >_______________________________________________________________ >MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography >hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. >The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of >the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of >Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for >the views of the author. >List Information: http://www.maphist.nl Henny (Lee Hae Kang) ----------------------------- All my sites moved So please adjust your bookmarks and links Portal to all my sites http://www.henny-savenije.pe.kr Feel free to discover Korea with Hendrick Hamel (1653-1666) http://www.hendrick-hamel.henny-savenije.pe.kr (in English) In Korean http://www.hendrick-hamel.henny-savenije.pe.kr/indexk2.htm In Dutch http://www.hendrick-hamel.henny-savenije.pe.kr/Dutch Frits Vos Article about Witsen and Eibokken and his first Korean-Dutch dictionary http://www.vos.henny-savenije.pe.kr Korea through Western Cartographic eyes http://www.cartography.henny-savenije.pe.kr (in English) Hwasong the fortress in Suwon http://www.hwasong.henny-savenije.pe.kr The way a ship was rigged: http://www.hendrick-hamel.henny-savenije.pe.kr/shiprigg.htm Old Korea in pictures http://www.oldKorea.henny-savenije.pe.kr Genealogy http://www.genealogy.henny-savenije.pe.kr _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: day@pop.theworld.com Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 08:47:09 -0400 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: John Day Subject: RE: [MapHist] World / Asia-Pacific Print article | Email Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 This did make the news wires in the States and the Japanese government has lodged some sort of objection. Kinda like Falklands vs Malvinas, isn't it? Take care, John >At IFLA's 68th General Conference this week in Glasgow (Tuesday morning, to >be precise, during the Section of Geography and Map Libraries' session) a >group of Koreans asked to make an announcement: in order to distribute the >publication below (at least, they didn't stay long for the session!). > >East Sea in world maps / [writers: LEE Ki-suk, KIM Shin, SOH Jung-chul]. - >Seoul : The Society for East Sea, April 2002 printing. - 126p. : ill. (maps) >; 30 cm. - "This book is the outcome of strenuous efforts made by the >Society for East Sea ... to determine the historically correct name for the >sea ... and analyzes the results of a study of old world maps preserved in >the British National Library [sic]" - 'Foreword'. - ISBN 89-9529-420-6 > >'Strenous efforts' indeed also to highjack meetings, one might query ... > >Francis Herbert (well - at least I got a free copy of the publication for a >Society with no government support since 1999) >f.herbert@rgs.org >http://www.rgs.org [see 'Collections'/'Unlocking the Archives'] > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Michael Ross [SMTP:michael.ross@clear.net.nz] > > Sent: 18 August 2002 08:57 > > To: Australasian Map Circle Com; Maphist > > Subject: [MapHist] World / Asia-Pacific Print article | Email > > > > Interesting Financial times article: > > > > "Relations between Japan and South Korea took an unusual hydrographic > > twist > > on Friday after Japan lodged an official protest over moves to change the > > name of the body of water that separates the two countries from the Sea of > > Japan to the East Sea. > > > > Japan lodged its protest with the International Hydrographic Organisation, > > a > > Monaco-based inter-governmental group, over its decision to omit the Sea > > of > > Japan from the drafts of its signature publication, Limits of Oceans and > > Seas." > > > > Full story at: > > > > http://news.ft.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=FT.com/StoryFT/FullStory > > &c > > =StoryFT&cid=1028185790084&p=1012571727169 > > > > Michael > > > > > > -------------------------------------------- > > Michael Ross > > Voice: +64.21.897.889 > > Fax: +64.21.218.2166 > > michael.ross@clear.net.nz > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________________________ > > MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography > > hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. > > The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of > > the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of > > Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for > > the views of the author. > > List Information: http://www.maphist.nl >_______________________________________________________________ >MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography >hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. >The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of >the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of >Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for >the views of the author. >List Information: http://www.maphist.nl _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: robinson@max.icu.ac.jp X-Mailer: Macintosh Eudora Version 4.3.2-J Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 22:28:59 +0900 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: "Kenneth R. Robinson" Subject: [MapHist] re: "Sea of Japan"/"East Sea" media report Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 The Daily Yomiuri, the English-language version of a major Japanese-language newspaper, published an article on August 19 regarding the "Sea of Japan"/"East Sea" dispute and maps. For those who are interested, the URL for that article is below. The print version of the Daily Yomiuri, I am told, included a photograph of a map showing "Sea of Japan," but I have not seen the paper newspaper as our library is closed temporarily for repairs. http://www3.yomiuri.co.jp/newse/20020819wo41.htm Ken Robinson _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: woodfin@archone.tamu.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0 Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 09:24:35 -0500 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: Tom Woodfin Subject: Re: [MapHist] "Reading the World" Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Peter; Sorry about that - someone had made a somehow sly remark about how non-cartographers were waxing academic about a particular map. Matthew's response was to that person and somewhere I got the idea it was you. I apologize if this was incorrect. In fact, I'll apologize to the whole list for misattribution. Tom At 09:46 AM 8/22/2002 +0200, you wrote: >Tom > >At 19:40 21-8-2002, you wrote: >>Peter's comment is germane to the paucity of the spatial portrayal of >>history demonstrated by many historians. > >The only comment I made, was that Matthew's message was a week delayed. So >I don't know what you mean with this remark. > >Peter van der Krogt > > > >YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY >Dr Peter van der Krogt >Map Historian, Explokart Research Program >Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht >P.O. Box 80.115 >3508 TC UTRECHT, The Netherlands >e-mail: peter@maphist.nl >Homepage: >MapHist: >Genealogy: >Elementymology: >Columbus Monuments: > >YYYYYYYYYYYYYYY PER ANGUSTA AD AUGUSTA YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY > >_______________________________________________________________ >MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography >hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. >The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of >the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of >Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for >the views of the author. >List Information: http://www.maphist.nl _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: woodfin@archone.tamu.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0 Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 09:31:30 -0500 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: Tom Woodfin Subject: Re: [MapHist] "Reading the World" Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 This is an apology for misattribution of the comments originally made about Matthew's announcement of the Osher publication. I was confused and mistakenly attributed the critical remarks to Peter van der Krogt. I do apologize to Peter and the list for this unintended misattribution. Of course if I'd spent a few moments considering the situation I would have recognized that Dr. van der Krogt is an extremely knowledgeable scholar in the field whose expertise does not overtake his personable and self-effacing demeanor. apologies, Tom Woodfin At 12:40 PM 8/21/2002 -0500, you wrote: >Matthew, your efforts are to be applauded for what we at large state >universities would term "outreach": the sharing of expertise and knowledge >to the university and citizenry as a way of demonstrating that academics >contribute a useful and valuable dimension to the culture. Getting the >Osher more prominently considered within your university is a critical >first step. In landscape architecture we do similar 'service projects' >every semester and while they are not 'peer-reviewed' they are valued >highly by the communities who receive the ideas and drawings of students' >work. I realize your publication is NOT a student work and much more >academically-elevated but outreach begins within the university community >and then to the public beyond. The Newberry, NYPL, Library of Congress >and other all other repositories of cartographic historical documentation >recognize these kinds of efforts and participate in them as well. I am >pleased to see your leadership at the Osher in the same light. > >Peter's comment is germane to the paucity of the spatial portrayal of >history demonstrated by many historians. I would suggest that almost >every effort helps to part the shadows of ignorance, particularly to those >whose responsibilities include expansion of endowments and programs as >well as archival protection of documents. As a neophyte to the history of >cartography, I find the erudite historigraphic expertise within this >MAPHIST community typically intimidating, useful but intimidating. > > > >_______________________________________________________________ >MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography >hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. >The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of >the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of >Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for >the views of the author. >List Information: http://www.maphist.nl _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5.2 Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 16:56:41 +0200 From: "Paul van den Brink" To: , Subject: Re: [MapHist] "Reading the World" X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by pop.geog.uu.nl id QAA00210 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 I presume Tom is reffering to critical remarks made by me, but I don't understand the essence of his reproach. Is it "not done" to raise reasoned objections/comments on MapHist? Dr. Paul van den Brink Explokart Research Team for the history of Cartography University of Utrecht, The Netherlands AND National Library of the Netherlands P.vandenbrink@geog.uu.nl Paul.vandenBrink@kb.nl _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: "V+R Mayer" To: Subject: [MapHist] Re: "Sea of Japan"/"East Sea" Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 09:58:24 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Naming a sea the East Sea is rather silly in this day and age. The direction in which a sea is located obviously depends on where you are standing. Germans call the Baltic Sea Die Ostsee, East Sea (what a coincidence). Russia, the Baltic and the Scandinavian states couldn't possibly agree to that name. Coming to think of it, there does not seem to be another name for the North sea. Then there is the Persian Gulf, for which we can expect a demand to change the name to Iranian Gulf, and which has been shown on some maps as the Arabian Gulf! Old maps of New Spain name the Pacific ocean Mar del Sur, south sea. I am sure that Hawaiians and Japanese, or Koreans for that matter, will not change their maps to show that name even if they find some 18th century maps of Mexico in their libraries. Roberto Mayer _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-WebMail-UserID: macmap@staff.uiuc.edu Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 10:31:46 -0500 From: macmap To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00003242 Subject: RE: [MapHist] ICHC Panel on AHR X-Mailer: WebMail (Hydra) SMTP v3.62 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Jeremy, maphisters, Very good idea. When Robinson was awarded the O.M. Miller medal by the AGS for contributions in cartography a few years back, the focus of most of his remarks were not on his achievements--but on the work of Miller. Personally, I find the the early 20th century a very interesting time in cartography and hope more historians will write on the topics you suggested. Best wishes, Scott R. McEathron >===== Original Message From maphist@geog.uu.nl ===== >Dear maphisters, > >I would like to suggest that a panel marking the 50th anniversary of Arthur >Robinson's Elements of Cartography (1st edn., 1953) be organized for the >conference next year. > >Elements has been a foundational textbook in US cartography and elsewhere >around the world. Most currently practioning cartographers can tell you >which edition they were taught with (mine was the 5th!). The book was >influenced by early 20th century thought in cartography (especially the >American Geographical Society) and of course ARH was interested in the >history of thematic mapping himself. And in turn it set the pace for >cartography itself (along with Look of Maps). > >I personally don't feel I am the one to organize this, although I've >mentioned it to Mark Monmonier and David W. I'm not proposing a session of >remembrances, but rather using the occasion as a marker into the history of >cartography in the 20th century, and how the work of Raisz, the 1:1million >map, the AGS, and especially J.K. Wright in statistical mapping was carried >forward (eg., into GIS). > >Does anyone think this is a good idea or wish to carry it forward? > >--Jeremy > >_______________________________________________________________ >MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography >hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. >The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of >the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of >Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for >the views of the author. >List Information: http://www.maphist.nl _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: F.Herbert@RGS.ORG To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: RE: [MapHist] Re: "Sea of Japan"/"East Sea" Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 16:36:51 +0100 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Roberto: The North Sea was often called, for several centuries, 'The German Ocean' (and ditto in other languages); indeed, on some maps both forms appeared together. Strangely enough 'The German Ocean/Sea' didn't find so much favour after World War One ... Also it was called 'The British Sea', especially in the 17th and 18th centuries; a map by Christopher Browne (London, 1700) has "The Brittish Sea or Eastern Ocean" - now, what do you make of that?! PS: I hope this doesn't lead to a long discussion on international sea/ocean nomenclature that is already covered elsewhere. Although, come to think of it, such maritime themes do not often appear in the History of Cartography Conferences that seem obsessed with topographic mapping ... Francis Herbert (keeping his head down) f.herbert@rgs.org http://www.rgs.org [see 'Collections'/'Unlocking the Archives'] > -----Original Message----- > From: V+R Mayer [SMTP:ryvmayer@internet.com.mx] > Sent: 22 August 2002 15:58 > To: maphist@geog.uu.nl > Subject: [MapHist] Re: "Sea of Japan"/"East Sea" > > Naming a sea the East Sea is rather silly in this day and age. The > direction > in which a sea is located obviously depends on where you are standing. > > Germans call the Baltic Sea Die Ostsee, East Sea (what a coincidence). > Russia, the Baltic and the Scandinavian states couldn't possibly agree to > that name. Coming to think of it, there does not seem to be another name > for > the North sea. Then there is the Persian Gulf, for which we can expect a > demand to change the name to Iranian Gulf, and which has been shown on > some > maps as the Arabian Gulf! > > Old maps of New Spain name the Pacific ocean Mar del Sur, south sea. I am > sure that Hawaiians and Japanese, or Koreans for that matter, will not > change their maps to show that name even if they find some 18th century > maps > of Mexico in their libraries. > > Roberto Mayer > > _______________________________________________________________ > MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography > hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. > The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of > the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of > Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for > the views of the author. > List Information: http://www.maphist.nl _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: adam_eve@henny-savenije.pe.kr X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 01:17:35 +0900 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: Henny Savenije Subject: Re: [MapHist] Re: "Sea of Japan"/"East Sea" Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 I think what is forgotten here is that the Japanese occupation is still fresh in the mind of people. Brutalities committed by the Japanese should not be lightly taken in the eyes of the Asians in general and Koreans in particular. Recently there was a big problem about history books for middle and high school which contained distortions about the role of Japan. China and Korea protested heavily, but the Japanese government did not yield. The book was only adopted by a handful schools but nevertheless. Also the fact that Japan never apologized for the atrocities is something which both the Chinese government and Korean government cannot accept. Maybe if this had been done, Korea would not make such a problem about the name of the East Sea. At 11:58 PM 8/22/2002, you wrote: >Naming a sea the East Sea is rather silly in this day and age. The direction >in which a sea is located obviously depends on where you are standing. > >Germans call the Baltic Sea Die Ostsee, East Sea (what a coincidence). >Russia, the Baltic and the Scandinavian states couldn't possibly agree to >that name. Coming to think of it, there does not seem to be another name for >the North sea. Then there is the Persian Gulf, for which we can expect a >demand to change the name to Iranian Gulf, and which has been shown on some >maps as the Arabian Gulf! > >Old maps of New Spain name the Pacific ocean Mar del Sur, south sea. I am >sure that Hawaiians and Japanese, or Koreans for that matter, will not >change their maps to show that name even if they find some 18th century maps >of Mexico in their libraries. > >Roberto Mayer > >_______________________________________________________________ >MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography >hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. >The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of >the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of >Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for >the views of the author. >List Information: http://www.maphist.nl Henny (Lee Hae Kang) ----------------------------- All my sites moved So please adjust your bookmarks and links Portal to all my sites http://www.henny-savenije.pe.kr Feel free to discover Korea with Hendrick Hamel (1653-1666) http://www.hendrick-hamel.henny-savenije.pe.kr (in English) In Korean http://www.hendrick-hamel.henny-savenije.pe.kr/indexk2.htm In Dutch http://www.hendrick-hamel.henny-savenije.pe.kr/Dutch Frits Vos Article about Witsen and Eibokken and his first Korean-Dutch dictionary http://www.vos.henny-savenije.pe.kr Korea through Western Cartographic eyes http://www.cartography.henny-savenije.pe.kr (in English) Hwasong the fortress in Suwon http://www.hwasong.henny-savenije.pe.kr The way a ship was rigged: http://www.hendrick-hamel.henny-savenije.pe.kr/shiprigg.htm Old Korea in pictures http://www.oldKorea.henny-savenije.pe.kr Genealogy http://www.genealogy.henny-savenije.pe.kr _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: "V+R Mayer" To: Subject: Re: [MapHist] Re: "Sea of Japan"/"East Sea" Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 12:20:50 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Dear Francis, What do I make of that? That I have seen more maps of Mexico than of the countries surrounding the North/British/German/Eastern/Sea/Ocean. Roberto. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 10:36 AM Subject: RE: [MapHist] Re: "Sea of Japan"/"East Sea" > Roberto: > > The North Sea was often called, for several centuries, 'The German Ocean' > (and ditto in other languages); indeed, on some maps both forms appeared > together. Strangely enough 'The German Ocean/Sea' didn't find so much > favour after World War One ... Also it was called 'The British Sea', > especially in the 17th and 18th centuries; a map by Christopher Browne > (London, 1700) has "The Brittish Sea or Eastern Ocean" - now, what do you > make of that?! > > PS: I hope this doesn't lead to a long discussion on international sea/ocean > nomenclature that is already covered elsewhere. Although, come to think of > it, such maritime themes do not often appear in the History of Cartography > Conferences that seem obsessed with topographic mapping ... > > Francis Herbert (keeping his head down) > f.herbert@rgs.org > http://www.rgs.org [see 'Collections'/'Unlocking the Archives'] > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: V+R Mayer [SMTP:ryvmayer@internet.com.mx] > > Sent: 22 August 2002 15:58 > > To: maphist@geog.uu.nl > > Subject: [MapHist] Re: "Sea of Japan"/"East Sea" > > > > Naming a sea the East Sea is rather silly in this day and age. The > > direction > > in which a sea is located obviously depends on where you are standing. > > > > Germans call the Baltic Sea Die Ostsee, East Sea (what a coincidence). > > Russia, the Baltic and the Scandinavian states couldn't possibly agree to > > that name. Coming to think of it, there does not seem to be another name > > for > > the North sea. Then there is the Persian Gulf, for which we can expect a > > demand to change the name to Iranian Gulf, and which has been shown on > > some > > maps as the Arabian Gulf! > > > > Old maps of New Spain name the Pacific ocean Mar del Sur, south sea. I am > > sure that Hawaiians and Japanese, or Koreans for that matter, will not > > change their maps to show that name even if they find some 18th century > > maps > > of Mexico in their libraries. > > > > Roberto Mayer > > > > _______________________________________________________________ > > MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography > > hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. > > The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of > > the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of > > Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for > > the views of the author. > > List Information: http://www.maphist.nl > _______________________________________________________________ > MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography > hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. > The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of > the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of > Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for > the views of the author. > List Information: http://www.maphist.nl > _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: adam_eve@henny-savenije.pe.kr X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 03:40:24 +0900 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: Henny Savenije Subject: RE: [MapHist] Re: "Sea of Japan"/"East Sea" Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 At 12:36 AM 8/23/2002, you wrote: >Roberto: > >The North Sea was often called, for several centuries, 'The German Ocean' >(and ditto in other languages); indeed, on some maps both forms appeared >together. Strangely enough 'The German Ocean/Sea' didn't find so much If German would refer to Germanic, well, then it makes sense, and I guess originally it was referring to that sea as such. Don't we have some record from the Romans about that sea? (sorry it's already very late, I am working on a book, shouldn't be replying to this mail, I have a broken rib and I am drinking a bottle of beer) But if memory serves me right, there is something written about that. Henny (Lee Hae Kang) ----------------------------- All my sites moved So please adjust your bookmarks and links Portal to all my sites http://www.henny-savenije.pe.kr Feel free to discover Korea with Hendrick Hamel (1653-1666) http://www.hendrick-hamel.henny-savenije.pe.kr (in English) In Korean http://www.hendrick-hamel.henny-savenije.pe.kr/indexk2.htm In Dutch http://www.hendrick-hamel.henny-savenije.pe.kr/Dutch Frits Vos Article about Witsen and Eibokken and his first Korean-Dutch dictionary http://www.vos.henny-savenije.pe.kr Korea through Western Cartographic eyes http://www.cartography.henny-savenije.pe.kr (in English) Hwasong the fortress in Suwon http://www.hwasong.henny-savenije.pe.kr The way a ship was rigged: http://www.hendrick-hamel.henny-savenije.pe.kr/shiprigg.htm Old Korea in pictures http://www.oldKorea.henny-savenije.pe.kr Genealogy http://www.genealogy.henny-savenije.pe.kr _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 15:13:20 -0700 Subject: [MapHist] CFP: Collecting, collectors, collections From: "Penny L. Richards" To: maphist@geog.uu.nl CC: huddis@aol.com Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Call for Papers, Panels, Presentations on: Collecting, Collectibles, Collectors, Collections THE SOUTHWEST-TEXAS POPULAR CULTURE ASSOCIATION/AMERICAN CULTURE ASSOCIATION February 12-15, 2003 Albuquerque, New Mexico We seek proposals for individual presentations and for entire panels about collecting, collectibles, collections, collectors and those whose artifacts are collected, for the SW-TPCA/ACA's annual conference for Popular/American Culture scholars and aficionados. We encourage presentations from any of the many Gender Studies perspectives, the many Ethnic Studies perspectives, the many LGBT perspectives, and the many Popular Culture/Cultural Studies perspectives, including theoretical considerations and Material Culture Studies. We seek presentations/panels from collectors, from creators of collectible art/artifacts, and from and about those who mediate between those who collect and those who create or offer collectibles (such mediators as gallery owners, traders, agents). This will be the third year that the collectors and collecting area of interest will be represented at this conference. Last year we had six panels of three presentations each. The two previous meetings have resulted in an expanding network of diverse people sharing mutual interests. We hope to continue to grow. Please join us. Some areas of consideration include, but are not limited to: 1. Your personal collection; 2. The history of collecting; 3. The impulse to collect; 4. Various attitudes towards collecting various artifacts in various ethnic, faith, class, educational, racial, social, generational or regional communities; 5. Collecting and political correctness; 6. Private collections as passion, as social climbing activity, as investments, as inflation hedges; 7. The business of collecting - buying and selling, mediating value - the dealer, the picker, the agent; 8. The impact of the Internet (including eBay and like sites) on collecting; 9. Relationships between collectors and curators; 10. Private collections as the basis for public museums; 11. Representations of collectors in popular fiction, film, theater; 12. Collecting as therapy/Collecting as neurosis; 13. Collecting as community activity; 14. Collecting as scholarship; 15. Collectors' organizations (car clubs, stamp clubs, costume jewelry collectors' groups, etc.), their functions, their controversies (for instance, conflicts between display and use, such as total restoration to showroom condition vs. repair and daily use for classic cars); 16. Do women and men, people with different levels of education, people with different class and ethnic origins collect different "stuff"? 17. The impact of collectors on "folk" or "ethnic" artists/makers - changes in style or palette, changes in gender roles, etc.; 18. What is an "authentic" collectible? 19. My junk/your treasure,my treasure/your junk. These are just ideas that come to mind from our previous experience and from questions yet unexplored by meeting panels; there are many other appropriate topics and viewpoints as well. For questions about the 2003 meeting - place (The Albuquerque Hilton), fees, accomodation and travel information - please go to the 2003 Meeting page of the organization's website (www2.h-net.msu.edu/~swpca). Please send your proposals (presentation time is about 20 minutes, leaving time for lively discussion following three presentations per panel) to me, Area Chair for Collectors and Collecting, at the following address: Alison Franks 4000 Aspen Avenue NE Albuquerque NM 87110 e-mail: Calwoodrat@aol.com I would much appreciate your sharing of this CFP with your colleagues and ListServs. With thanks, Alison Franks Area Chair, Collectors and Collecting Southwest-Texas Popular Culture Association/American Culture Association Annual Meeting 2003 _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: philhoehn@juno.com X-Original-From: philhoehn@juno.com Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 23:06:29 GMT To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: [MapHist] Additions to Rumsey Collection website X-Mailer: Juno Webmail Version 1.0 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 The following are highlights from 705 new maps added to the David Rumsey Collection. All titles may be found by searching under Search/by Publication Author using the author last names below. There are now 7,184 images on the site -- http://www.davidrumsey.com -------------------------------------------------------------- Railroad and Land Development Maps of Texas, various dates, 1877 to 1892. (Galveston, Texas), Houston and Texas Central Railway, International & Great Northern Railroad, Southern Pacific Company, St. Louis, Iron Mountain, and Southern Railway Company, Texas and Pacific Railway, and Texas Land and Immigration Company. Maps of the City of Boston, various dates, 1835 to 1888. Haynes, Tilly, Hopkins, G.M., Prang, L. & Co., Sampson, Murdock & Co., Sidney, F. G.; Smith, R. P., and Smith, George G. California Land Development Maps, various dates, 1887 to 1914. California State Board of Trade, Honey Lake Valley Land and Water Company; Taylor, L. H., Johnstone, E. McD.; Southern Pacific Company, McKay, Scott, Reece, C. W.; Tucker, E., Southern Pacific Company, and Tamalpais Land And Water Co.; Clapp, Charles H.; Avery, Gus D. Illustrated Historical Atlas of the State of Minnesota, 1874. Andreas, A.T. 191 Maps and views. One of the earliest atlases of Minnesota with maps and views of cities, counties, farms, commercial buildings, as well as three special birds eye views of Minneapolis, Saint Paul, and Winona that are not found in the standard editions of this work. Illustrated Historical Atlas of the State of Iowa, 1875. Andreas, A.T. 222 Maps and views. Similar in format to the Minnesota Historical Atlas, with extensive coverage of Iowa farm plats and views. Atlas...On the Geology of the Comstock Lode and the Washoe District, 1882. Becker, George F. 22 Maps, sections, and diagrams. An important atlas of the mining activity in the Comstock Lode in northern Nevada. Illustrated Topographical and Historical Atlas of the State of Vermont, 1876. H.W. Burgett and Company, Beers, J.B. & Co. 81 Maps and views. This scarce atlas is styled after the Andreas atlases of Iowa and Minnesota, although the views are more frequently of commercial establishments than of homes or farms. It is very well done, and the only known production of H.W. Burgett. (Atlante Geografico), 1856 Marzolla, Benedetto. 51 Maps. This is a very attractive and scarce atlas by a Italian cartographer from Naples. Marzolla prints extensive notes with his maps, listing his cartographic sources and giving political and statistical information on the areas covered. The map of "Nuova California" is based on the Hypolite Ferry map of 1850 and is discussed by Wheat. The maps are dated from 1840 to 1856. Atlas of the State of Michigan, 1873 Walling, H.F. 89 Maps. The first Michigan State atlas. Maps of each county are included, as well as important cities. Phil Hoehn, Librarian David Rumsey Collection San Francisco philhoehn@juno.com http://www.davidrumsey.com _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: "Matthew Champion" To: Subject: RE: [MapHist] Re: "Sea of Japan"/"East Sea" Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 09:43:08 +0100 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Dear All The term 'German Ocean' appears on British maps well into the 19th century. The change of name coincides with the major expansion of the British Empire in the mid 19th century. After all, the average Victorian could hardly have an ocean that lapped at Britain's shores being named after some foreign country. Particularly a country that was beginning to be regarded as a rival. The name 'North Sea' was an obvious choice for the British and whatever the rest of Europe wished to call it was probably immaterial. Britain was top dog and could do fairly much as it liked. However, I do wonder exactly what the Germans called that particular stretch of water at the time. Did they, like their modern Japanese equivalents, feel annoyed at the change. I suspect not. After all, they could still call it whatever they liked. Coincidentally, the name 'German Ocean' is still used in various parts of Eastern England and still appears in a number of folk songs/tales from the region. Perhaps it's time for duel names being officially applied to cartographic features - as in Wales. Certain maps of Wales show place names in both English and Welsh. The English name is not necessarily a direct translation of the Welsh and can have an entirely different meaning. The Sea of Japan/ East Sea - why not officially accept both? The chances are that someone will just try and change it again in about fifty years. Matt Champion -----Original Message----- From: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl [mailto:owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl]On Behalf Of Henny Savenije Sent: 22 August 2002 19:40 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: RE: [MapHist] Re: "Sea of Japan"/"East Sea" At 12:36 AM 8/23/2002, you wrote: >Roberto: > >The North Sea was often called, for several centuries, 'The German Ocean' >(and ditto in other languages); indeed, on some maps both forms appeared >together. Strangely enough 'The German Ocean/Sea' didn't find so much If German would refer to Germanic, well, then it makes sense, and I guess originally it was referring to that sea as such. Don't we have some record from the Romans about that sea? (sorry it's already very late, I am working on a book, shouldn't be replying to this mail, I have a broken rib and I am drinking a bottle of beer) But if memory serves me right, there is something written about that. Henny (Lee Hae Kang) ----------------------------- All my sites moved So please adjust your bookmarks and links Portal to all my sites http://www.henny-savenije.pe.kr Feel free to discover Korea with Hendrick Hamel (1653-1666) http://www.hendrick-hamel.henny-savenije.pe.kr (in English) In Korean http://www.hendrick-hamel.henny-savenije.pe.kr/indexk2.htm In Dutch http://www.hendrick-hamel.henny-savenije.pe.kr/Dutch Frits Vos Article about Witsen and Eibokken and his first Korean-Dutch dictionary http://www.vos.henny-savenije.pe.kr Korea through Western Cartographic eyes http://www.cartography.henny-savenije.pe.kr (in English) Hwasong the fortress in Suwon http://www.hwasong.henny-savenije.pe.kr The way a ship was rigged: http://www.hendrick-hamel.henny-savenije.pe.kr/shiprigg.htm Old Korea in pictures http://www.oldKorea.henny-savenije.pe.kr Genealogy http://www.genealogy.henny-savenije.pe.kr _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: F.Herbert@RGS.ORG To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: RE: [MapHist] Re: "Sea of Japan"/"East Sea" Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 09:57:39 +0100 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Matt Champion has 'hit the nail on the head' by his (accidental?) spelling of "duel [sic] names": if only some nations and their map- and chart-makers adopted the principle of *dual* names there would be less antagonism and confusion today. Such a principle (of dual names) is, in fact, precisely one of those about which the United National Group of Experts on Geographical Names (UNGEGN) and - logically, being a marine feature - the International Hydrographic Organization (IHO) concern themselves and advise on. And, incidentally, dual/alternative nomenclature is not the always the same as *bilingual* forms of the same name. Francis Herbert f.herbert@rgs.org http://www.rgs.org [see 'Collections'/'Unlocking the Archives'] > -----Original Message----- > From: Matthew Champion [SMTP:timescape@tiscali.co.uk] > Sent: 23 August 2002 09:43 > To: maphist@geog.uu.nl > Subject: RE: [MapHist] Re: "Sea of Japan"/"East Sea" > > Dear All > The term 'German Ocean' appears on British maps well into the 19th > century. > The change of name coincides with the major expansion of the British > Empire > in the mid 19th century. After all, the average Victorian could hardly > have > an ocean that lapped at Britain's shores being named after some foreign > country. Particularly a country that was beginning to be regarded as a > rival. The name 'North Sea' was an obvious choice for the British and > whatever the rest of Europe wished to call it was probably immaterial. > Britain was top dog and could do fairly much as it liked. However, I do > wonder exactly what the Germans called that particular stretch of water at > the time. Did they, like their modern Japanese equivalents, feel annoyed > at > the change. I suspect not. After all, they could still call it whatever > they > liked. Coincidentally, the name 'German Ocean' is still used in various > parts of Eastern England and still appears in a number of folk songs/tales > from the region. > Perhaps it's time for duel names being officially applied to cartographic > features - as in Wales. Certain maps of Wales show place names in both > English and Welsh. The English name is not necessarily a direct > translation > of the Welsh and can have an entirely different meaning. > The Sea of Japan/ East Sea - why not officially accept both? The chances > are > that someone will just try and change it again in about fifty years. > Matt Champion > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl [mailto:owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl]On Behalf > Of > Henny Savenije > Sent: 22 August 2002 19:40 > To: maphist@geog.uu.nl > Subject: RE: [MapHist] Re: "Sea of Japan"/"East Sea" > > At 12:36 AM 8/23/2002, you wrote: > >Roberto: > > > >The North Sea was often called, for several centuries, 'The German Ocean' > >(and ditto in other languages); indeed, on some maps both forms appeared > >together. Strangely enough 'The German Ocean/Sea' didn't find so much > > If German would refer to Germanic, well, then it makes sense, and I guess > originally it was referring to that sea as such. Don't we have some record > from the Romans about that sea? (sorry it's already very late, I am > working > on a book, shouldn't be replying to this mail, I have a broken rib and I > am > drinking a bottle of beer) But if memory serves me right, there is > something written about that. > > > > Henny (Lee Hae Kang) > ----------------------------- > All my sites moved > So please adjust your bookmarks and links > Portal to all my sites > http://www.henny-savenije.pe.kr > Feel free to discover Korea with Hendrick Hamel (1653-1666) > http://www.hendrick-hamel.henny-savenije.pe.kr (in English) > In Korean > http://www.hendrick-hamel.henny-savenije.pe.kr/indexk2.htm > In Dutch > http://www.hendrick-hamel.henny-savenije.pe.kr/Dutch > Frits Vos Article about Witsen and Eibokken and his first Korean-Dutch > dictionary > http://www.vos.henny-savenije.pe.kr > Korea through Western Cartographic eyes > http://www.cartography.henny-savenije.pe.kr (in English) > Hwasong the fortress in Suwon > http://www.hwasong.henny-savenije.pe.kr > The way a ship was rigged: > http://www.hendrick-hamel.henny-savenije.pe.kr/shiprigg.htm > Old Korea in pictures > http://www.oldKorea.henny-savenije.pe.kr > Genealogy > http://www.genealogy.henny-savenije.pe.kr > > > > _______________________________________________________________ > MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography > hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. > The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of > the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of > Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for > the views of the author. > List Information: http://www.maphist.nl > > _______________________________________________________________ > MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography > hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. > The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of > the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of > Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for > the views of the author. > List Information: http://www.maphist.nl _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: "Cook, Andrew" To: "'maphist@geog.uu.nl'" Subject: RE: [MapHist] Mar del Sur [was "Sea of Japan"/"East Sea"] Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 10:26:41 +0100 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Yes, but there is still significance in understanding how names came to be applied. The Spanish reached the new sea by travelling from north to south across the Isthmus of Panama, and, when they came to the south coast, it became for them the Mar del Sur. And there's the standard catch question about which direction the Panama Canal runs (north-west to south-east). The Spanish name was applied to the whole of the ocean now Pacific: Oscar Spate published an illuminating article in the 1970s on the re-naming of the ocean from Mar del Sur to Pacific . A consequence of the general acceptance earlier of the name 'Mar del Sur' is that the company given the monopoly of British trade on the west coast of the Americas was called the *South Sea* Company, even when its monopoly privilege by charter was deemed to extend as far north as did the northern American continent itself. Which is why traders in the late eighteenth century taking sea-otter pelts from the now-Alaska coast to market in Canton required licences from both the East India Company and the South Sea Company to do so. Andrew Cook ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Andrew S Cook MA PhD FRSA FRHistS Map Archivist, India Office Records The British Library 96 Euston Road London NW1 2DB E-mail andrew.cook@bl.uk Telephone/Voicemail 020 7412 7828 Fax 020 7412 7641 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - > -----Original Message----- > From: V+R Mayer [SMTP:ryvmayer@internet.com.mx] > Sent: 22 August 2002 15:58 > To: maphist@geog.uu.nl > Subject: [MapHist] Re: "Sea of Japan"/"East Sea" > Old maps of New Spain name the Pacific ocean Mar del Sur, south sea. I am > sure that Hawaiians and Japanese, or Koreans for that matter, will not > change their maps to show that name even if they find some 18th century > maps > of Mexico in their libraries. > > Roberto Mayer ********************************************************************** Now open at the British Library Galleries: Trading Places : the East India Company and Asia (to 22 September) ********************************************************************* The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete this e-mail and notify the postmaster@bl.uk : The contents of this e-mail must not be disclosed or copied without the sender's consent. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the British Library. The British Library does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. ********************************************************************* _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f Subject: [MapHist] large-scale cartography of the Delaware River Basin To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.8 June 18, 2001 From: "Dalia E Varanka" Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 08:03:39 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on gsmorllm01/SERVER/USGS/DOI(Release 5.0.10 |March 22, 2002) at 08/23/2002 08:03:42 AM Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Greetings: I'm writing to ask if anyone has any suggestions about sources (map collections, publications, etc.) for the study of the large-scale cartography of the Delaware River basin. That would be the eastern-most quarter of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, and small part of New York (around the Catskills), and the western edge of New Jersey. Thanks for considering it, Dalia Dalia Varanka Research Geographer U.S. Geological Survey 1400 Independence Road Rolla, Mo 65401 Tel. 573.308.3897 Fax 573.308.3652 Internet: dvaranka@usgs.gov _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5.2 Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 15:52:15 +0200 From: "Paul van den Brink" To: Subject: Re: [MapHist] large-scale cartography of the Delaware River Basin X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by pop.geog.uu.nl id PAA11236 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Dalia, You can find (literature) references on http://www.mapsofpa.com/references.htm . Interesting (non-published) source materials should be availeble in the Archives of the Holland Land Company, housed in the Municipal Archives of Amsterdam. The company owned hunderdthousand's acres of lands in New York, [eastern] Pennsyvania and New England; At the time (some 20 or more years ago) when I made an inventory of the ca. 1000 18th- and 19th-century manuscript-maps in this collection, the Archives of the company were filmed by order of the State University of NY at Fredonia. You can find more information on http://www.hlc.wny.org/ Though all the maps were filmed, the map-inventory was not included. I'm not even sure if the data is still available. But I will do some research and, if possible and off list, provide you with relevant mapdescriptions. With best regards Paul van den Brink Dr. Paul van den Brink Explokart Research Team for the history of Cartography University of Utrecht, The Netherlands AND National Library of the Netherlands P.vandenbrink@geog.uu.nl Paul.vandenBrink@kb.nl _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f Subject: Re: [MapHist] large-scale cartography of the Delaware River Basin To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.8 June 18, 2001 From: "Dalia E Varanka" Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 09:27:17 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on gsmorllm01/SERVER/USGS/DOI(Release 5.0.10 |March 22, 2002) at 08/23/2002 09:27:19 AM Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 How fascinating! I will look at it right away. Thank you vey much. : -) "Paul van den Brink" To: Subject: Re: [MapHist] large-scale cartography of the Sent by: Delaware River Basin owner-maphist@ge og.uu.nl 08/23/2002 08:52 AM Please respond to maphist Dalia, You can find (literature) references on http://www.mapsofpa.com/references.htm . Interesting (non-published) source materials should be availeble in the Archives of the Holland Land Company, housed in the Municipal Archives of Amsterdam. The company owned hunderdthousand's acres of lands in New York, [eastern] Pennsyvania and New England; At the time (some 20 or more years ago) when I made an inventory of the ca. 1000 18th- and 19th-century manuscript-maps in this collection, the Archives of the company were filmed by order of the State University of NY at Fredonia. You can find more information on http://www.hlc.wny.org/ Though all the maps were filmed, the map-inventory was not included. I'm not even sure if the data is still available. But I will do some research and, if possible and off list, provide you with relevant mapdescriptions. With best regards Paul van den Brink Dr. Paul van den Brink Explokart Research Team for the history of Cartography University of Utrecht, The Netherlands AND National Library of the Netherlands P.vandenbrink@geog.uu.nl Paul.vandenBrink@kb.nl _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: KitTheMap@aol.com Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 10:33:39 EDT Subject: Re: [MapHist] Re: "Sea of Japan"/"East Sea" To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows DE sub 10501 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 In einer eMail vom 23.08.2002 10:52:29 (MEZ) - Mitteleurop. Sommerze schreibt timescape@tiscali.co.uk:


Perhaps it's time for duel names being officially applied to cartographic
features - as in Wales. Certain maps of Wales show place names in both
English and Welsh.


Pistols at dawn???

And what about the English Channel which I believe the French call The Trench!!

Kit
X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: "Matthew Champion" To: Subject: RE: [MapHist] Re: "Sea of Japan"/"East Sea" Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 16:26:54 +0100 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714

Theory One.

Ok, Ok – I admit the spelling was a mistake. All my outgoing emails are automatically corrected by spellchecker. If it finds a word spelt wrong it asks to insert the ‘correct’ spelling. I obviously wasn’t concentrating.

 

Theory Two

It was deliberate play on words that fitted the context of the argument rather well and made the author look witty and intelligent.

 

You decide.

Matt Champion

 

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl [mailto:owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl]On Behalf Of KitTheMap@aol.com
Sent: 23 August 2002 15:34
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Re: "Sea of Japan"/"East Sea"

 

In einer eMail vom 23.08.2002 10:52:29 (MEZ) - Mitteleurop. Sommerze schreibt timescape@tiscali.co.uk:



Perhaps it's time for duel names being officially applied to cartographic
features - as in Wales. Certain maps of Wales show place names in both
English and Welsh.



Pistols at dawn???

And what about the English Channel which I believe the French call The Trench!!

Kit

X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: jdocktor@cyberia.com@pop.onemain.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 14:08:31 -0400 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: "John W. Docktor" Subject: Re: [MapHist] large-scale cartography of the Delaware River Basin Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 At 08:03 AM 8/23/2002 -0500, you wrote: >Greetings: >I'm writing to ask if anyone has any suggestions about sources (map >collections, publications, etc.) for the study of the large-scale >cartography of the Delaware River basin. That would be the eastern-most The Pennsylvania State Archives in Harrisburg has a large collection of primary source material. See http://www.phmc.state.pa.us/bah/dam/rg/index.htm and look at record group numbers 6, 17, and 41. Also look at http://www.phmc.state.pa.us/bah/dam/mg/mg11.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- John W. Docktor Phone: 717-846-8997 Fax: 717-845-9337 jdocktor@cyberia.com Cartography - Calendars of Events & Exhibitions: http://www.docktor.com/ Washington Map Society: http://www.washmap.org/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 14:18:29 -0700 Subject: [MapHist] Suffrage maps, for Women's Equality Day (August 26) From: "Penny L. Richards" To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 In observance of the anniversary (Monday) of the 19th Amendment to the US Constitution (granting the right of women citizens to vote), I draw MapHisters attention to the "suffrage map" as a genre. Much like a wartime map of battles fought and territory gained, the suffrage map was part of the iconography of the 19th-early 20th c. women's suffrage movement. See the following online text for one example of a suffrage map: http://docsouth.unc.edu/nc/ballots/clark.html (it's in _Ballots for Both. An Address by Chief Justice Walter Clark at Greenville, N. C., 8 December, 1916_. The map is toward the end of the online edition.) Penny L. Richards PhD Research Scholar, UCLA Center for the Study of Women Co-editor, H-Education and H-Disability turley2@earthlink.net _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: "J.B. Post" To: Subject: Re: [MapHist] large-scale cartography of the Delaware River Basin Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 17:32:23 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 The Free Library of Philadelphia has, over the years, taken the Delaware River & Bay as an area of collecting interest. Communicate with Rich Boardman at mailto:BoardmanR@library.phila.gov for fuller details. J. B. Post ----- Original Message ----- From: Dalia E Varanka To: Sent: Friday, August 23, 2002 9:03 AM Subject: [MapHist] large-scale cartography of the Delaware River Basin > Greetings: > I'm writing to ask if anyone has any suggestions about sources (map > collections, publications, etc.) for the study of the large-scale > cartography of the Delaware River basin. That would be the eastern-most > quarter of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, and small part of New York > (around the Catskills), and the western edge of New Jersey. > Thanks for considering it, > Dalia > > > Dalia Varanka > Research Geographer > U.S. Geological Survey > 1400 Independence Road > Rolla, Mo 65401 > Tel. 573.308.3897 > Fax 573.308.3652 > Internet: dvaranka@usgs.gov > > > _______________________________________________________________ > MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography > hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. > The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of > the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of > Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for > the views of the author. > List Information: http://www.maphist.nl > > _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: maphist@mail.maphist.nl (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 12:50:19 +0200 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl (by way of List-owner MapHist ) Subject: [MapHist] large-scale cartography of the Delaware River Basin Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Non-member submission from [Doug McIlroy ] > From: "Dalia E Varanka" > > I'm writing to ask if anyone has any suggestions about sources (map > collections, publications, etc.) for the study of the large-scale > cartography of the Delaware River basin. Dalia, You probably know about it already, but "The Mapping of New Jersey" (Rutgers University Press, 1973), written by John P. Snyder before he "retired" to the USGS, is a source that should not be missed. Doug _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 16:33:12 -0600 From: "Far West Trading Co." X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: [MapHist] Rocky Mountain Antique Map Fair Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Fellow Map Lovers, I would like to remind everyone about an upcoming event. The Rocky Mountain Map Society is pleased to announce that The Second Annual Rocky Mountain Antique Map Fair will take place on Saturday, September 21, 2002. The sale will be a one day event and will be open to the public from 9:00 AM until 5:00PM. It will be held in the conference center on the lower level of the Denver Public Library at 10 W. 14th Avenue Parkway, (13th Avenue & Broadway) in downtown Denver, Colorado. Admission is $5.00 at the door. Last year’s fair was an unqualified success. We will be expanding this year but still keeping the fair small enough to provide large display areas for each booth. The list of exhibitors includes some of the best known dealers in the world as well as several dealers with regional expertise and focus. We strive for an international appeal with a local flavor. Twenty-two international antique map dealers and a representative of the Library of Congress will be on hand, and a wide variety of cartographic treasures will be available for viewing and purchase. The Fair is sponsored by the Rocky Mountain Map Society and the Friends Foundation of the Denver Public Library. On Friday, September 20th, the Rocky Mountain Map Society will host a banquet dinner and social gathering for RMMS members, participating dealers, DPL friends and staff, and Map Fair attendees. The gathering will begin at 6:00 PM and will be held at the Pinnacle Club, Bluebell One Room and Gallery, on the 37th floor of the Qwest Building, located at 555 17th St. in Downtown Denver. Dinner will be served at approximately 7:00 PM. Prior to dinner, a brief program entitled “The Consequences of Quivira” will be presented by past RMMS president Paul Mathias. The cost is $50.00 per person and needs to be prepaid. Please contact me for details at farwesttc@sisna.com or send payment to the RMMS address listed below. Many choices in lodgings are available within easy walking distance of the Fair site. We will be reserving a block of rooms in the Downtown Comfort Inn at the discounted rate of $109.00 per room. The Comfort Inn is owned by and physically connected to the Brown Palace Hotel, the best known and possibly the finest hotel in Denver. Amenities of the Brown Palace are available to Comfort Inn guests. This hotel is about 3 blocks from the DPL. Arrangements should be made directly with the Comfort Inn. The discount rate is available by mentioning the Rocky Mountain Antique Map Fair. Their web site is comfortinndenver.com . Details are available on our web site rmmaps.org . If I can answer any questions or address any concerns, please feel free to contact me at farwesttc@sisna.com. Thank You Myron West Coordinator - Rocky Mountain Antique Map Fair Rocky Mountain Map Society Our mailing address is: Rocky Mountain Map Society 1790 Hudson St. Denver CO 80220 The slate of exhibitors is listed below. 1.Curt & Marty Griggs Old World Auctions 270 Hillside Ave Sedona AZ 86336 marti@oldworldauctions.com 2.Paul Mahoney Old Map Gallery 1746 Blake St. Denver CO 80202 oldmapgallery@denver.net 3. Bob Augustyn & Richard Lan Martayan Lan 48 E 57th St. New York NY 10022 r.augustyn@maytayanlan.com 4. Andre & Carol Dumont Dumont Maps & Books 314 McKenzie St. Santa Fe NM 87504 info@dumontbooks.com 5. Ralph Salomon WorldView Antique Maps, LLC 113 Todd Road Katonah, New York 10536 USA salomon@worldviewmaps.com 6. Robert Berg Antiquariat Reinhold Berg Wahlenstr. 6 93047 Regensburg Germany robertberg@bergbook.com 7. Adina Sommer Antiquariat Adina Sommer Rosenheimerstr. 8 81669 Munchen Germany antiquariat@asommer.de 8.Harry S. Newman The Old Print Shop, Inc. 150 Lexington Avenue New York NY 10016 hnewman@oldprintshop.net 9. Barry Ruderman Barry Lawrence Ruderman Antique Maps Inc. 1298 Prospect, Suite 2C La Jolla, CA 92037 blr@raremaps.com 10.Preston and Petra Figley Old Maps and Prints P.O. Box 100121 Fort Worth TX 76185 maps@americamaps.com 11.Art Source International Inc. 1237 Pearl Street Boulder, Colorado 80302 info@mapsandprints.com 12. Myron West Far West Maps & Books 210 W 16th St. Cheyenne WY 82001 farwesttc@sisna.com 13.Brendan Moss Esq. 110-332 Water St. Vancouver BC V6B1B6 Canada 604-662-8171 14. John Gubbins Terra Firma Antique Maps P.O.Box 45320 San Diego CA 92145 jgubbins@san.rr.com 15. Alexandre & Sherry Arjomand Alexandre Antique Maps Prints & Books 104 Queen St, East Toronto Ontario M5C 1S6 Canada gallery@alexandremaps.com 16. Luke & Patricia Varva Cartographic Arts POBox 2202 Petersburg VA 23804 carto@dogstar.com 17.Thomas & Suzanne Hotter Thomas Hotter Gallery 94 Water St. – Rockdale Cambridge WI 53523 18. Len Hendry Rare Antique Maps Forum 11 Anthony Road White Plains NY 10605 ramforum@aol.com 19. Nigel Garwood & Rainer Voigt Garwood & Voigt Antiquarian Maps & Prints 55 Bayham Road Sevenoaks TN 13 3XE England GV@garwood-voigt.com 20. Sandra & John Berryman Fine Books 170 Laurelwood Lane Ormond Beach FL 32174 BiblioSandy@worldnet.att.net 21. Philip D Burden Clive A Burden LTD Elmcote House, The Green, 'Croxley' Green Rickmansworth, Herts, WD3 3HN UK philip@CABurden.com 22. Jenny Wagstaff Jenny Wagstaff Antique Maps Little Gables – Stoke Close Cobham, Surrey KT11 3AE UK Jenny.wagstaff@virgin.net 23. Patricia Molen van Ee Library of Congress Geography & Map Division 101 Independence Ave. SE Washington DC 20540 pvanee@loc.gov _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: "Evelyn Edson" To: Subject: RE: [MapHist] Byzantine maps Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 11:47:37 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Dear Mr. Raiswell: Thanks for your suggestion. I did look at the Greek and showed the Greek text to a colleague. The two participles are "draw" and "write in letters." (If you care, I can probably figure out how to make this program write Greek.) Anyway it is one of the earliest references to a nautical chart, and offers the possibility that marine charts came to Europe from Byzantium. Evelyn Edson Professor of History Piedmont Virginia Community College 501 College Drive Charlottesville, VA 22902 (434) 961-5384 _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 00:33:00 +0200 Subject: [MapHist] Blue Back From: Vladimiro Valerio To: Maphist X-scanner: scanned by Inflex 1.0.9 - (http://pldaniels.com/inflex/) Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Dear all, I recently acquired a chart of the east coast of United States from New York to Cuba (dated 1854 and 5 metres in length) backed with a sort of blue heavy paper. An old sailman friend of mine has told me that it is an example of a blue back chart used up to WWII. May I have any information about this kind of map (references, catalogues etc.)? Many Thanks. Vladimiro WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW Vladimiro Valerio Via Raffaello Morghen, 88 I-80129 Napoli phone &fax +39-081-5568952 +39-335-403807 vladimir@unina.it Istituto Universitario di Architettura Dipartimento di Storia della Architettura San Polo 2468 - Palazzo Badoer I-30125 Venezia +39-041-2571458 vladimir@iuav.it WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW PER ASPERA AD ASTRA WWWWWWWWWWW _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: "Maura O'Connor" To: "'maphist@geog.uu.nl'" Subject: RE: [MapHist] Blue Back Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 08:55:23 +1000 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Vladimiro Your chart is known as a "blue-backs" and were common during the nineteenth century. Susanne Fisher the English dealer who specialised in early sea charts wrote an article about them in the Map Collector many years ago. If I have time I will try to track it down for you. Otherwise someone else on the discussion list may get in before me with the title, etc of the article, plus some other references! Yours sincerely Maura O'Connor Map Curator National Library of Australia CANBERRA ACT 2617 AUSTRALIA Phone : 61 2 6262 1280 Fax : 61 2 6262 1653 Email : moconnor@nla.gov.au > ---------- > From: Vladimiro Valerio[SMTP:vladimir@unina.it] > Reply To: maphist@geog.uu.nl > Sent: Tuesday, 27 August 2002 8:33 AM > To: Maphist > Subject: [MapHist] Blue Back > > Dear all, > I recently acquired a chart of the east coast of United States from New > York > to Cuba (dated 1854 and 5 metres in length) backed with a sort of blue > heavy > paper. An old sailman friend of mine has told me that it is an example of > a > blue back chart used up to WWII. May I have any information about this > kind > of map (references, catalogues etc.)? > > Many Thanks. > > > > Vladimiro > > WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW > Vladimiro Valerio > Via Raffaello Morghen, 88 > I-80129 Napoli > phone &fax +39-081-5568952 > +39-335-403807 > vladimir@unina.it > > Istituto Universitario di Architettura > Dipartimento di Storia della Architettura > San Polo 2468 - Palazzo Badoer > I-30125 Venezia > +39-041-2571458 > vladimir@iuav.it > WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW PER ASPERA AD ASTRA WWWWWWWWWWW > > _______________________________________________________________ > MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography > hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. > The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of > the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of > Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for > the views of the author. > List Information: http://www.maphist.nl > _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: jsk@pop.gamewood.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 19:15:47 -0400 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: Joel Kovarsky Subject: Re: [MapHist] Blue Back Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714
 May I have any information about this kind
of map (references, catalogues etc.)?

See:
   Fisher, Susanna: The Makers of the Blueback Charts. A History of Imray Laurie Norie & Wilson Lt., Regatta Press Ltd (Ithaca, NY), 2001. ISBN 0-9674826-5-8. (She has been on the staff of the National Maritime Museum for decades.)

                   Joel Kovarsky
X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: deelong@mail.gci.net Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 15:57:58 -0800 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: Dee Longenbaugh Subject: Re: [MapHist] Blue Back Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 >> May I have any information about this kind >>of map (references, catalogues etc.)? >> > > For a general history, try Ritchie, Adm. G. S., THE ADMIRALTY CHART: British Naval Hydrography in the Nineteenth Century, Hollis & Carter, 1967 HTH (Hope this helps), Dee -- The Observatory, ABAA 200 North Franklin Juneau, Alaska 99801 Telephone 907/586-9676 Fax 907/586-9606 deelong@alaska.com http://www.observatorybooks.com 1977-2002, our 25th year _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: F.Herbert@RGS.ORG To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: RE: [MapHist] Blue Back Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 10:16:20 +0100 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Dear Vladimiro, An update and (slight) revision on the recent messages regarding Blueback chart references. For the British (original) imprint details I give myself permission to reproduce the entry from the 'Imago Mundi Bibliography' in vol. 54 (2002):- The makers of the Blueback charts : a history of Imray, Laurie, Norie & Wilson Ltd / Susanna Fisher. - St Ives, Cambridgeshire : Imray, Laurie, Norie & Wilson, 2001. - x,158p., [8]p. of col. plates : ill. (including 1 on front of dust-jacket), maps, portr. ; 25 cm. - 'Sources [& notes]' (divided into MS and printed) : p.137-149. - Includes 'Glossary' (p.152). - Portr. are of A.G. Findlay, G. Imray, H. Imray, J. Imray, K. Imray, H.D. Jenkins, D.W. Kettle, W.R. Kettle, J.H. Moore, J. Norie (x 2), R. Sayer (in family group), A. Wilkinson, A. Wilson, C. Wilson, G. Wilson jr, G. Wilson sr, T. Wilson, W. Wilson, Willie Wilson, & W. Eric Wilson. - Includes also discussion of R. Blachford, W. Heather, J.F. Imray, R.H. Laurie, & J. Whittle. - ISBN 0-85288-458-3 Susanna [note ending 'a'] Fisher has not been employed at the NMM for decades, but has for decades combined a career as an independent second-hand/used dealer in Admiralty and other nautical publications (now quite scaled down) with that of archivist/researcher of the firm of Imray, Laurie, Norie & Wilson and other British hydrographic works. From a quick glance through the bibliography of her 2001 monograph she does not refer to her earlier articles in 'The Map Collector', June 1985, 31 [see 'Imago Mundi Bibliography' entry no. 86:38(014)] nor in 'Antique collecting', 1997, 32(4); but they may still have value by including different illustrations. G.S. 'Steve' Ritchie's book 'The Admiralty chart : British naval hydrography in the nineteenth century' was published in a new edition in 1995 [see 'Imago Mundi Bibliography' entry no. 96:48(002)] The authoress (as we still occasionally call them in Britain) notes (p.140): "The earliest printed used of the term 'bluebacks' found is in 'The Mercantile Marine Magazine', 1865". Yours obligingly Francis f.herbert@rgs.org http://www.rgs.org [see 'Collections'/'Unlocking the Archives'] > -----Original Message----- > From: Vladimiro Valerio [SMTP:vladimir@unina.it] > Sent: 26 August 2002 23:33 > To: Maphist > Subject: [MapHist] Blue Back > > Dear all, > I recently acquired a chart of the east coast of United States from New > York > to Cuba (dated 1854 and 5 metres in length) backed with a sort of blue > heavy > paper. An old sailman friend of mine has told me that it is an example of > a > blue back chart used up to WWII. May I have any information about this > kind > of map (references, catalogues etc.)? > > Many Thanks. > > > > Vladimiro > > WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW > Vladimiro Valerio > Via Raffaello Morghen, 88 > I-80129 Napoli > phone &fax +39-081-5568952 > +39-335-403807 > vladimir@unina.it > > Istituto Universitario di Architettura > Dipartimento di Storia della Architettura > San Polo 2468 - Palazzo Badoer > I-30125 Venezia > +39-041-2571458 > vladimir@iuav.it > WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW PER ASPERA AD ASTRA WWWWWWWWWWW > > _______________________________________________________________ > MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography > hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. > The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of > the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of > Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for > the views of the author. > List Information: http://www.maphist.nl _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 00:45:32 +0200 Subject: [MapHist] Blueback From: Vladimiro Valerio To: Maphist X-scanner: scanned by Inflex 1.0.9 - (http://pldaniels.com/inflex/) Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Dear Maura, Joel, Dee and Francis, Your quick replies are confirm my opinion that MAPHIST is still an invaluable source of information on HoC, and its subscribers are still the best in the field. I have the whole collection of Map Collector magazine and the Ritchie's book on Admiralalty, so I may easily receive a first aid. I will buy as soon as possible the latest book written by Susanna Fischer. Thank you for your help. Vladimiro WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW Vladimiro Valerio Via Raffaello Morghen, 88 I-80129 Napoli phone &fax +39-081-5568952 +39-335-403807 vladimir@unina.it Istituto Universitario di Architettura Dipartimento di Storia della Architettura San Polo 2468 - Palazzo Badoer I-30125 Venezia +39-041-2571458 vladimir@iuav.it WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW PER ASPERA AD ASTRA WWWWWWWWWWW _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2106 Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 08:28:26 +0200 Subject: Re: [MapHist] Grand Lama of Tibet & Chinese wind-wagons From: Marica Milanesi To: X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by pop.geog.uu.nl id IAA02714 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Il giorno 13-08-2002 15:05, Robert Braeken, robert_braeken@HOTMAIL.COM ha scritto: > Dear Maphisters: > > (1) the Grand Lama of Tibet (?) : > In d'Anville's "Nouvel Atlas de la Chine" of 1737 appeared the "Carte > Generale du Thibet ou Bout-Tan et des pays de Kashgar et Hami". In the top > of this map's cartouche a portrait appears of an unidentified man, dressed > in what appears to be a robe. He might very well be the Grand Lama of Tibet; > or one of the Jesuit priests who supplied the basic data for the map; > or...??? I have found no reference to this portrait on the map, or in the > atlas itself, or in its accompanying four text-volumes : the "Description > géographique, historique, chronologique, politique, et physique de l'empire > la Chine et de la Tartarie chinoise" by J.B. Du Halde. Does anybody know for > sure who this is ? > > (2) Chinese (?) wind-wagons: > On various 16th and 17th c. maps of China, (beginning with Ortelius' 1584 > map of China by the Jesuit Luiz Jorge de Barbuda / Ludovicius Georgius), > "wind- / sail-wagons" appear : was the concept of these wagons part of the > stock of technical gadgets (clocks, steam-engines etc. ) that the Jesuits > brought with them to China, to impress the inhabitants into conversion ; or > was it the other way around ? > I have checked the verso-texts of the Ortelius and Hondius maps of China, > without result. van Linschoten in his Itinerario mentions the wind-wagons in > China ; but this in the 1590's, well after the first edition of the Ortelius > map. > > > > > > > _______________________________________________________________ > MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography > hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. > The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of > the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of > Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for > the views of the author. > List Information: http://www.maphist.nl > The portrait of a man with a black cassock and the simple hair brushing should show the author of the book on China and direct source of the map, the Jesuit Father du Halde. Greetings Marica Milanesi _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: "tony campbell" To: "*MapHist" Subject: [MapHist] 'Map History' and spam Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 07:40:00 +0100 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 I have just been made aware that the 'D9 updates' page on the 'Map History' site [i.e. the page that updates the contact details given in "Who's Who in the History of Cartography"] < http://ihr.sas.ac.uk/maps/d9update.html > is being used by spammers. I have immediately altered the email addresses so that they cannot be hoovered up electronically. Any addresses added in future will be treated in the same way. I am now in the process of doing the same for any other email links or addresses on other pages on the site. I am possibly at fault for not having anticipated this development. However, the page has been up for over two and a half years without any problems of this sort, as far as I know. If you receive spam messages, do not respond to the originator directly. [And do not, of course, open any attachment]. This will merely confirm to them that your address is an active one. If you use Internet Explorer you can bounce the message back ['Message' - 'Block Sender']. The spam that has triggered this message is a variant of the Nigerian $126,000,000 (or thereabouts) scam. They are instantly recognisable by a capitalised heading, such as 'URGENT AND CONFIDENTIAL'. There must be millions of email links and addresses on web pages. University sites, for example, will usually provide email addresses for staff. And a number of listservs have public web archives, which include the sender's email address. If new levels of sophistication (?) by spammers mean that all those addresses must now be disguised, the webmasters of the world are going to be very busy. Please accept my apologies if you are affected in this way. I hope it will be a temporary problem, but it has to be said that spammers tend to go on using an address once they have captured it. If you find it necessary to change your email address [though I very much doubt it will be as bad as that] as said above I can record it in a way unusable by spammers. Tony Campbell t.campbell@ockendon.clara.co.uk _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: robinson@max.icu.ac.jp X-Mailer: Macintosh Eudora Version 4.3.2-J Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 15:52:00 +0900 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: "Kenneth R. Robinson" Subject: [MapHist] re: East Sea/Sea of Japan - Sea of Japan/East Sea Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 For those who are interested in the Sea of Japan/East Sea (or East Sea/Sea of Japan) matter, The Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Japan has placed its report on the Ministry homepage. The "original" text is the English-language version. The Japanese-language version is a "translation." For the English-language text, go to the URL below. Reference is made in both versions to the volume "East Sea in World Maps" introduced earlier. http://www.mofa.go.jp/index.html Scroll to "26. August Sea of Japan (PDF)" and click. The PDF file should appear. (Alternatively, go to http://www.mofa.go.jp/mofaj/. This takes you to the Ministry's Japanese-language homepage. To the right you will see an icon reading Ministry of Foreign Affairs/Japan/English. Click that icon. You should arrive at the page in the directions above. Scroll to "26. August Sea of Japan (PDF)" and click. The PDF file should appear.) Tuesday evening I saw a television news report on this issue and the Japanese government's efforts. Ken Robinson _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Originating-IP: [131.211.66.103] From: "Robert Braeken" To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: Re: [MapHist] Grand Lama of Tibet & Chinese wind-wagons Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 14:50:17 +0200 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Aug 2002 12:50:17.0691 (UTC) FILETIME=[7602BAB0:01C24E91] Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 dear Marica, it certainly may be, but unfortunately I haven't found a reference to it in the book by Du Halde, nor in D'Anvilles atlas, nor in his notes. It may also be the Jesuit father who in 1711 was asked by the emperor to make a map of Tibet on the basis of Chinese data, but refused to do so because he found them unsatisfactory : pere Regis. I'm still looking for a decisive reference ! thanks and regards, Robert Braeken. >From: Marica Milanesi >Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl >To: >Subject: Re: [MapHist] Grand Lama of Tibet & Chinese wind-wagons >Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 08:28:26 +0200 > >Il giorno 13-08-2002 15:05, Robert Braeken, robert_braeken@HOTMAIL.COM ha >scritto: > > > Dear Maphisters: > > > > (1) the Grand Lama of Tibet (?) : > > In d'Anville's "Nouvel Atlas de la Chine" of 1737 appeared the "Carte > > Generale du Thibet ou Bout-Tan et des pays de Kashgar et Hami". In the >top > > of this map's cartouche a portrait appears of an unidentified man, >dressed > > in what appears to be a robe. He might very well be the Grand Lama of >Tibet; > > or one of the Jesuit priests who supplied the basic data for the map; > > or...??? I have found no reference to this portrait on the map, or in >the > > atlas itself, or in its accompanying four text-volumes : the >"Description > > géographique, historique, chronologique, politique, et physique de >l'empire > > la Chine et de la Tartarie chinoise" by J.B. Du Halde. Does anybody know >for > > sure who this is ? > > > > (2) Chinese (?) wind-wagons: > > On various 16th and 17th c. maps of China, (beginning with Ortelius' >1584 > > map of China by the Jesuit Luiz Jorge de Barbuda / Ludovicius Georgius), > > "wind- / sail-wagons" appear : was the concept of these wagons part of >the > > stock of technical gadgets (clocks, steam-engines etc. ) that the >Jesuits > > brought with them to China, to impress the inhabitants into conversion ; >or > > was it the other way around ? > > I have checked the verso-texts of the Ortelius and Hondius maps of >China, > > without result. van Linschoten in his Itinerario mentions the >wind-wagons in > > China ; but this in the 1590's, well after the first edition of the >Ortelius > > map. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________________________ > > MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography > > hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. > > The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of > > the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of > > Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for > > the views of the author. > > List Information: http://www.maphist.nl > > > >The portrait of a man with a black cassock and the simple hair brushing >should show the author of the book on China and direct source of the map, >the Jesuit Father du Halde. >Greetings >Marica Milanesi > >_______________________________________________________________ >MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography >hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. >The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of >the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of >Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for >the views of the author. >List Information: http://www.maphist.nl _________________________________________________________________ Meld je aan bij de grootste e-mailservice ter wereld met MSN Hotmail: http://www.hotmail.com/nl _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: "Roderick M. Barron" To: Subject: [MapHist] Image in cartocuhe of the Blaeu-Martini map of Province of Chekiang Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 20:23:58 +0100 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Roderick M. Barron Antique Map Specialist Antique Maps, Atlases & Globes P.O.Box 67 Sevenoaks Kent TN13 3WW ENGLAND Tel/Fax : +44-1732-742558 e-mail : rod@barron.co.uk website : http://www.barron.co.uk VAT GB 602 6465 60 I have recently been looking at the Blaeu-Martini Atlas Sinensis maps (1655). I wonder if anyone can enlighten me as to the subject of the cartouche on the map of Chekiang Province from this Atlas. The image of the figure to the left of the title cartouche appears to show a Chinese man winding what appears to be a thread / string of some sort from / onto a spindle and guiding it into / out of the top of a small burning stove or furnace with a long stick. Adjacent are two further figures who appear to be handling small items (of food ? / dim sum ?) laid out on what look like circular food baskets or drums. Is this possibly the earliest depiction of the making of Chinese noodles ?! the cartouche image can be viewed at : http://www.barron.co.uk/maps/BlaeuMartiniChekiang.jpg Can anyone give me any clues. Many thanks in anticipation Roderick M. Barron _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: "Roderick M. Barron" To: Subject: [MapHist] The earliest Western depiction of Chinese cotton-making / Martini-Blaeu Atlas Sinensis Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 21:54:54 +0100 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Roderick M. Barron Antique Map Specialist Antique Maps, Atlases & Globes P.O.Box 67 Sevenoaks Kent TN13 3WW ENGLAND Tel/Fax : +44-1732-742558 e-mail : rod@barron.co.uk website : http://www.barron.co.uk VAT GB 602 6465 60 I have recently been looking at the Blaeu-Martini "Atlas Sinensis" maps of China & its Provinces (1655) and in particular at the highly decorative title cartouches. I was struck by the image of the figure to the left of the title cartouche in the maps of Chekiang Province which appears to show a man winding a cotton thread onto a spindle whilst guiding it out of the top of a small burning furnace with a long stick. On the other side of the cartouche are two further female figures who appear to be handling small wads/buds of raw cotton - laid out on what look like circular trays, baskets & drums. The woman appears to be pointing to the branch of what one assumes is a cotton plant in the background. Is this possibly the earliest Western depiction of Chinese cotton-making ? The cartouche image can be viewed at : http://www.barron.co.uk/maps/BlaeuMartiniChekiang.jpg I've just checked a full page illustration of cotton-making processes as shown by Du Halde in his "Description generale de la Chine" [Paris 1735] p.746 Plate No.63 and it clearly shows a similar scene. In a series of images du Halde shows the dried wads/balls of raw cotton first being dried on racks, then placed in baskets & emptied into the top of a heated furnace. The cotton fibers are then seemingly seen being extracted as long threads (slivers) from the top of the furnace & wound directly onto a loom. Unfortunately I don't have Du Halde's accompanying description to hand to get a better idea of the processes involved as he describes them. If anyone has this (or equally can elaborate on the processes involved) perhaps they might let me know what Du Halde says, ideally in English translation if possible (!) And if anyone knows of any other Western illustrations of cotton-making in China from this period or earlier (in Western books or maps) I'd be interested to hear from them. Also does anyone know the sources Martini used for the illustrations in these cartouches ? Did they come from his own first-hand sketches in China as supplied to Blaeu with his manuscript surveys ? They seem too original & novel to be derivative or from second-hand European sources. Also does anyone know what might have become of the original Martini surveys of China as supplied to Blaeu for engraving in Amsterdam ? Did they survive ? Are they known of / heard of after 1655 ? Did Blaeu give them back to Martini or were they perhaps disposed of, being considered superfluous, once the full final engraved work had been published ? Finally, on a completely different subject, though still on China, if anyone has the extract (in English if possible) from Van Linschoten's "Itinerario" (as Robert Braeken mentions) which describes the Chinese landyachts /wind waggons as per my earlier June inquiry/Posting on the subject I'd appreciate knowing exactly what Van Linschoten says about them. Thanks in anticipation Roderick M. Barron _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: "Roderick M. Barron" To: Subject: [MapHist] Blaeu-Martini Map of Chekiang Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 22:05:09 +0100 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Roderick M. Barron Antique Map Specialist Antique Maps, Atlases & Globes P.O.Box 67 Sevenoaks Kent TN13 3WW ENGLAND Tel/Fax : +44-1732-742558 e-mail : rod@barron.co.uk website : http://www.barron.co.uk VAT GB 602 6465 60 Apologies for the recent postings of what may appear a rather strange pair of messages about the Blaeu-Martini map of Chekiang Province. The first posting was work-in-progress that should not have been posted to the list. It developed into the second posting as I looked closer at the map and did more research, which of course dismissed my initial belief that this might be the first depiction of Chinese noodle-making !!! Please disregard the first posting accordingly. My apologies ! Roderick M. Barron _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: Jrrubini@aol.com Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 21:56:39 EDT Subject: [MapHist] locate Coylan To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10513 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714
I have a map entitled Plan de La Fortresse de Coylan. Can someone tell me where this fort is located and anything about it.
            Joseph Rubini

    
X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 22:35:18 -0400 From: Overlee Farm Books X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: Re: [MapHist] locate Coylan Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Most likely it is Kollam, formerly called Quilon, on the Malabar Coast of India.  Martin Torodash

Jrrubini@aol.com wrote:

 
I have a map entitled Plan de La Fortresse de Coylan. Can someone tell me where this fort is located and anything about it.
            Joseph Rubini
 
 
X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: "Phil Stover" To: Subject: Re: [MapHist] locate Coylan Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 22:52:36 -0400 Organization: The Portolan Group X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at pop016.verizon.net from [68.57.8.147] using ID at Wed, 28 Aug 2002 21:53:11 -0500 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714
Coylan was the Dutch name for the old Portuguese settlement of Quilon on the Malabar Coast of India.  The Dutch captured it in late 1661
 
Perhaps others will tell you more.  Phil
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 9:56 PM
Subject: [MapHist] locate Coylan


I have a map entitled Plan de La Fortresse de Coylan. Can someone tell me where this fort is located and anything about it.
            Joseph Rubini

    
 

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 8/2/02
X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Originating-IP: [68.66.58.229] From: "John Wehrmeister" To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: Re: [MapHist] The earliest Western depiction of Chinese cotton-making / Martini-Blaeu Atlas Sinensis Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 08:08:12 -0400 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Aug 2002 12:08:12.0975 (UTC) FILETIME=[E9FD23F0:01C2501D] Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Here is the English passage from Linschoten on wind waggons: "(chapter 24) The men of China are great and cunning workemen, as may well bee seene by the workmanship that commeth from thence. They make and use [waggons or] Cartes with sayles (like Boates) and with wheeles so subtilly made, that being in the fielde they goe and are driven forwards by the winde, as if they were in the water, they are verie wittie in buying and selling." John Wehrmeister >From: "Roderick M. Barron" >Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl >To: >Subject: [MapHist] The earliest Western depiction of Chinese cotton-making >/ Martini-Blaeu Atlas Sinensis Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 21:54:54 +0100 > > >Roderick M. Barron >Antique Map Specialist >Antique Maps, Atlases & Globes >P.O.Box 67 >Sevenoaks >Kent TN13 3WW >ENGLAND >Tel/Fax : +44-1732-742558 >e-mail : rod@barron.co.uk >website : http://www.barron.co.uk >VAT GB 602 6465 60 > > >I have recently been looking at the Blaeu-Martini "Atlas Sinensis" maps >of China & its Provinces (1655) and in particular at the highly decorative >title cartouches. > >I was struck by the image of the figure to the left of the title cartouche >in the maps of Chekiang Province which appears to show a man winding >a cotton thread onto a spindle whilst guiding it out of the top of a small >burning furnace with a long stick. > >On the other side of the cartouche are two further female figures who >appear to be handling small wads/buds of raw cotton - laid out on what >look like circular trays, baskets & drums. The woman appears to be >pointing to the branch of what one assumes is a cotton plant in the >background. > >Is this possibly the earliest Western depiction of Chinese cotton-making ? > >The cartouche image can be viewed at : >http://www.barron.co.uk/maps/BlaeuMartiniChekiang.jpg > >I've just checked a full page illustration of cotton-making processes as >shown by Du Halde in his "Description generale de la Chine" [Paris 1735] >p.746 Plate No.63 and it clearly shows a similar scene. > >In a series of images du Halde shows the dried wads/balls of raw cotton >first >being dried on racks, then placed in baskets & emptied into the top of a >heated furnace. The cotton fibers are then seemingly seen being extracted >as >long threads (slivers) from the top of the furnace & wound directly onto a >loom. > >Unfortunately I don't have Du Halde's accompanying description to hand to >get a better idea of the processes involved as he describes them. If anyone >has this (or equally can elaborate on the processes involved) perhaps they >might >let me know what Du Halde says, ideally in English translation if possible >(!) > >And if anyone knows of any other Western illustrations of cotton-making in >China from this period or earlier (in Western books or maps) I'd be >interested >to hear from them. > >Also does anyone know the sources Martini used for the illustrations in >these >cartouches ? Did they come from his own first-hand sketches in China as >supplied to Blaeu with his manuscript surveys ? They seem too original & >novel to be derivative or from second-hand European sources. > >Also does anyone know what might have become of the original Martini >surveys >of China as supplied to Blaeu for engraving in Amsterdam ? Did they survive >? >Are they known of / heard of after 1655 ? Did Blaeu give them back to >Martini or were they perhaps disposed of, being considered superfluous, >once >the full final engraved work had been published ? > >Finally, on a completely different subject, though still on China, if >anyone >has >the extract (in English if possible) from Van Linschoten's "Itinerario" (as >Robert >Braeken mentions) which describes the Chinese landyachts /wind waggons as >per my earlier June inquiry/Posting on the subject I'd appreciate knowing >exactly >what Van Linschoten says about them. > >Thanks in anticipation > >Roderick M. Barron > > > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________________________ >MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography >hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. >The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of >the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of >Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for >the views of the author. >List Information: http://www.maphist.nl _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: "Peter Hicks" To: Subject: [MapHist] Napoleonic maps Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 18:36:27 +0200 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-Lookup-Warning: reverse lookup on original sender failed X-Return-Path: hicks@napoleon.org X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714
I have a query. I am interested in maps of the Napoleonic period. 71 such maps exist on the West Point Military Academy web site. They are however so large as to be unprintable. How does one go about printing such large maps, or is it impossible?
 
Peter Hicks
Historien et webmaster éditorial
hicks@napoleon.org
 
Fondation Napoléon
148, blvd Haussmann
75008 Paris, France
tel.: +33 (0)1 56 43 46 00 fax: +33 (0)1 56 43 46 01
http://www.napoleon.org - information@napoleon.org
 
 
X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: "Don Holeman" To: Subject: Re: [MapHist] Napoleonic maps Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 16:09:54 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 http://www.pandi.hp.com/seg/large_printers.html There is nothing special about the formatting of files for such plotters and printers, they are simple able to handle larger pieces of paper. Perhaps a local engineering firm would provide you access to thiers. Drafting firms, advertising agencies and the like are also possibilities. Government planning offices have them too. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Hicks" To: Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 12:36 PM Subject: [MapHist] Napoleonic maps I have a query. I am interested in maps of the Napoleonic period. 71 such maps exist on the West Point Military Academy web site. They are however so large as to be unprintable. How does one go about printing such large maps, or is it impossible? Peter Hicks Historien et webmaster éditorial hicks@napoleon.org Fondation Napoléon 148, blvd Haussmann 75008 Paris, France tel.: +33 (0)1 56 43 46 00 fax: +33 (0)1 56 43 46 01 http://www.napoleon.org - information@napoleon.org --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.384 / Virus Database: 216 - Release Date: 8/21/02 _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: jsk@pop.gamewood.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 16:34:08 -0400 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: Joel Kovarsky Subject: Re: [MapHist] Napoleonic maps Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 At 04:09 PM 8/30/2002 -0400, you wrote:
I have a query. I am interested in maps of the Napoleonic period. 71 such
maps exist on the West Point Military Academy web site.

For those who might like to see what is available via the academy site:

<http://www.dean.usma.edu/history/dhistorymaps/Atlas%20Page.htm>. As noted, some of the files are very large, so those of us with standard modem connections are at a disadvantage.

            Joel Kovarsky
X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: day@pop.theworld.com Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 20:05:43 -0400 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: John Day Subject: Re: [MapHist] Napoleonic maps Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 ArialI have a query. I am interested in maps of the Napoleonic period. 71 such maps exist on the West Point Military Academy web site. They are however so large as to be unprintable. How does one go about printing such large maps, or is it impossible? Arial Kinko's generally have larger printers like that and web access, check it out. Might be easier than you think! Take care, John