X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.0.14 Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 16:32:07 -0700 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: Derek Hayes Subject: [MapHist] John Jay - Mitchell map authenticity X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.456 required=6.31 tests=AWL, BAYES_00, HTML_10_20, HTML_MESSAGE, SPF_HELO_PASS X-Spam-Level: Dear MapHisters

During the negotiations for the 1783 Treaty of Paris, a fourth edition (1775) of John Mitchell's Map of the British Colonies in North America was annotated with boundary lines for the new United States by British representative Richard Oswald. This map was presented to King George III and is now in the British Library.

The New York Historical Society has a copy of the third edition (1773-4) (with the original Mitchell title, Map of the British and French Dominions in North America) on which boundaries have been added, supposedly by John Jay, one of the negotiators for the American side. This map shows some differences from the British map in the Maine/New Brunswick area, differences which were not resolved until the 1842 Webster-Ashburton treaty.

However there are notes on the record for the NYHS copy which question whether the annotations are really those of John Jay. Does anyone happen to know anything about the authenticity or otherwise of this map?

Thanks,
Derek Hayes




Derek Hayes

Vancouver, BC Canada

derek@derekhayes.ca

http://www.derekhayes.ca

Phone: 604 541 7850
Fax:   available, please call first.

Author:
Historical Atlas of British Columbia and the Pacific Northwest (1999)
Historical Atlas of the Pacific Northwest (US edition, 1999)
First Crossing: Alexander Mackenzie, His Expedition Across North America, and the Opening of a Continent (2001; paperback 2003)
Historical Atlas of the North Pacific Ocean (2001)
Historical Atlas of Canada: Canada's History Illustrated with Original Maps (2002)
Historical Atlas of the Arctic (2003)
Canada An Illustrated History (2004)
America Discovered: A Historical Atlas of North American Exploration (2004)
Historical Atlas of Vancouver and the Lower Fraser Valley
(Forthcoming, fall 2005)
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Sender: vanderkr18@mail.vanderkrogt.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.2.0 Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 09:09:33 +0200 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: Peter van der Krogt Subject: [MapHist] Dr Marco van Egmond X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS-perl11-milter (http://amavis.org/) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.574 required=6.31 tests=AWL, BAYES_00 X-Spam-Level: Dear all Yesterday, at the University of Utrecht, Marco van Egmond defended successfully his doctoral thesis ''Productie, organisatie en betekenis van de Nederlandse land-kaartenuitgeverij Covens & Mortier (1685-1866)' (Production, organization, and development of a commercial-cartographic enterprise in Amsterdam, 1685-1866). In 1998, Marco started his research for the cartographical production of Pieter Mortier and his successor, the firm of Covens & Mortier. During the 18th century the firm of Covens & Mortier can be considered as the most important representant of the Amsterdam map production. The research was part of the Explokart Research Program of the Utrecht Faculty of Geo-sciences, which proves herewith that it not suffers from the "Blaeu-syndrom" (as one of the members of the promotion commission called the emphasis of the research to the Dutch Golden Age of cartography in the late 16th and 17th century). The result of Dr Van Egmond's research is a 426 page book including all facets of the cartographic activities of Covens & Mortier. The book is printed only in a limited number and not available. The public has to wait for the English translation, which will be published in a few years with an extra second part, including a full cartobibliography of Covens & Mortier's production. Some information on the research (and other things) you will find on Marco's homepage: http://home.hetnet.nl/~mager01/Index.htm Presently, Marco van Egmond is curator of the map collection of the Faculty of Geosciences at the University Library of Utrecht. Address (for congratulations and presents) at http://kaartenzaal.geog.uu.nl/indexkaarten.htm Peter van der Krogt head of the Explokart Research Program YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY Dr Peter van der Krogt Map Historian, Explokart Research Program Faculty of Geo-sciences, University of Utrecht P.O. Box 80.115 3508 TC UTRECHT, The Netherlands e-mail: peter@vanderkrogt.net Homepage: MapHist: Genealogy: Elementymology: Columbus Monuments: YYYYYYYYYYYYYYY PER ANGUSTA AD AUGUSTA YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: "C.Delano-Smith" To: Subject: Re: [MapHist] Mitchell map authenticity Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 17:20:20 +0100 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-Sender-Host-Address: 81.152.128.83 X-QM-Scan-Virus: virusscan says the message is clean X-QM-Scan-Virus: ClamAV says the message is clean X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.104 required=6.31 tests=AWL, BAYES_00, HTML_10_20, HTML_MESSAGE, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB X-Spam-Level:

In reply to Derek Hayes' query about the Mitchell map (on which John Dundabin wrote in *Imago Mundi* vol 50, 1998, pp105-124), I forwarded the query to John (currently at the Newberry), who writes:
 
"   I am answering this query from memory.  But there seems no hard EVIDENCE that ANY surviving map can be categorically linked with the final outcome of the 1782 negotiations [left unchanged in the formal 1783 treaty], as opposed to stages earlier on in the negotiations (like the 'George III' map the letter mentions).  Your correspondent should look at the discussion in David Hunter Miller ed., Treaties & ?other international acts /concluded by the United States [title nearly but not quite right] in many volumes, starting with the section on the 1842 Webster-Ashburton Treaty (though there may be some refs. back to earlier discussions].  In 1842, as my article for you says, Webster was able to use the 'Steuben' map and the transcript Jared Sparks made of a map in the Paris archives that Sparks believed to be Franklin's description to Vergennes of the boundaries just agreed in 1782  to persuade the Maine delegates and the US Senate to accept a Maine-New Brunswick border slightly less favourable to Maine thaN that awarded by arbitration in 1831.  Next year the 'George III' map, far more supportive of the US position, came to light in London;  and in the 1930s a similar map was discovered in the Spanish archives that could well be Vergennes' exposition of the boundaries agreed in 1782.  Hunter Miller inclines towards the 'American' view of the boundaries, but sees no map as so linked to the outcome of the negs. that it could stand as evidence in a court of law.  One of the oddities is that, though both Jay and President John Adams (both peace negotiators) lived well into the period of post-1815 dispute over that border, neither said anything to support the US case.  (Franklin had submitted to the earlier Commission, under the Jay treaty, on the 'true St.Croix', a sheet of his Mitchell's map;  this was in connection only with the rivers on the coast, but my memory is that it implies a line running further north from them than the British [or the 'Ste uben' map] were prepared to accept after 1818.  And certainly the general belief in New Brunswick in the 1790s was that the 'north line' frontier from the St.Croix WOULD cross the St.John.  In 1818 the British developed an interesting legalistic argument from the actual text of the treaty according to which the Bay of Fundy & the Gulf of St.Lawrence were distinguished by the wording of other parts of the border article from the 'Atlantic Ocean';  if so, the terms of the treaty were either impossible to meet, or could be met only by taking the watershed between the Kennebec/Penobscot and the Chaudiere, which would have left the whole St.John basin to Britain/New Brunswick."
 
I hope this will be of interest and/or help.
 Catherine
 
 
Dr Catherine Delano-Smith
Editor, IMAGO MUNDI The International Journal for the History of Cartography
285 Nether Street
London N3 1PD
U.K.
 
For editorial matters, see IMAGO MUNDI's homepage at <http://www.maphistory.info/imago.html >. For all matters relating to  subscriptions and
> sales from the publishers, Routledge (Taylor & Francis), see <http://www.tandf.co.uk/journals/titles/03085694.html>.
For access to back issues (Vols 1 to 2002 inclusive, via JSTOR subscription) see: <http://www.jstor.org/journals/03085694.html>.
 

 
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: "john a w lock" To: Subject: [MapHist] Call for Papers - TERRA INCOGNITA ( x-post from H-ARTHIST) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 17:21:16 +0100 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4927.1200 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.879 required=6.31 tests=AWL, BAYES_00, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB X-Spam-Level: From: H-ArtHist (Livia Cardenas) On Behalf Of H-NET List on Art History/Die E-Mail-Liste fuer Kunstgeschichte im H-Net Reply To: H-ARTHIST@H-NET.MSU.EDU To: Subject: CFP: terra incognita (ATOPIA 8) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 08:11:26 +0200 From: "ealloa" Date: 31 May 2005 12:02 AM Subject: CFP "terra incognita" (ATOPIA 8) Call for Papers - TERRA INCOGNITA Deadline: June 30th 2005 For a long time, regions unknown to the civilized world were densely populated by monsters, troglodytes or mythical beings. When the exploration era began, these regions were rapidly depopulated. In 1375, Abraham Cresques published his famous Catalan Atlas showing a wide blank stripe. Its caption was as simple as it was frightening: "terra incognita" - both a menace and a challenge to any mariner. For centuries, "terra cognita" and "terra incognita" coexisted within the same spatial coordinates, until it turned out that the mass to the south of the known world - "terra australis incognita" as it was known to the Ancients - wasn't the counterweight of the northern world populated by another species of man. With polar expeditions, the void on the map ultimately came to coincide with the white surface of the Antarctic. Now that the terrae incognitae have been entirely engulfed by the meridians of the known, there seems to be little space left for exploration. What was the story of these unknown spaces? Which new landfalls are possible, what new practices of partitioning are available? Some web-pioneers have decreed the Net to be the last terra incognita. ATOPIA 8 will look for unoccupied zones, unfamiliar territories, unfurling a path between concrete and imaginary, political and poetical mappings, while obeying the rule of any explorer: follow the river, going upstream from the coast. As no terra incognita is homogeneous, it has its arteries too. We thus welcome submissions for papers approaching the subject "Terra incognita" from a historical, philosophical, literary, artistic or political point of view. Please send in a brief proposal (max 500 characters) to atopia (at)atopia(dot)tk by June 30th 2005. Final contributions can be made in English, German, French, Italian or Spanish. Emanuel Alloa Editor ATOPIA e-zine http://www.atopia.tk ATOPIA :: polylogic e-zine ____________________________________________________________________ H-ARTHIST Humanities-Net Discussion List for Art History E-Mail-Liste fuer Kunstgeschichte im H-Net Editorial Board Contact Address / Fragen an die Redaktion: hah-redaktion@h-net.msu.edu Submit contributions to / Beitraege bitte an: h-arthist@h-net.msu.edu Homepage: http://www.arthist.net ____________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: "tony campbell" To: "*MapHist" Subject: [MapHist] Recent additions to the 'Map History' site Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 21:29:00 +0100 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.572 required=6.31 tests=AWL, BAYES_00 X-Spam-Level: I do not remember having seen anything on MapHist about the recent launch of the John Carter Brown's 'Archive of Early American Images' - unless an announcement was included in an existing thread. Given the JCB's stature as the leading research collection for early Americana, this is a major development. A search on the subject section 'Geography, maps, city views and plans' found 774 images. The JCB is to be congratulated on presenting these so that they can be enlarged, with great clarity, to several times their original size. Since their collection includes many rarities, this growing archive is going to be a vital resource for researchers. However, I found the site slow and awkward to use. As far as I could see, the various indexes are unhelpful, retrieving irrelevant items. If anybody has the time to explore more thoroughly and finds a way to retrieve relevant hits via a geographical search, please let me know. The JCB's Archive is just one of around 100 new sites added to 'Map History' in this month's update, to join the 3,500 already there. Thanks to the tireless efforts of Tommy Tyrberg, this is the largest update for some time. Most of the new links have gone onto the Web Images and Web Articles pages, where they can be retrieved by searching for 'May 2005'. Another site of research significance - though the images are not of research quality - is devoted to the Tomasz Niewodniczanski collection . This has long been noted for its rarities. It also features in this update. Ed Dahl recently passed on to the list the official announcement about the new 'France in America' site - a collaboration between the Library of Congress and Bibliothèque nationale de France. What the press release did not specifically mention is that the site includes 67 MrSID images from the Revolutionary War 'Rochambeau Collection' of MS maps. LC continues to mount an impressive range of map pages, usually with high resolution MrSID images, and nearly always with accompanying text. The BnF also adds material on a regular basis, for example 'Voyages en Italie'. Unfortunately, neither institution issues announcements about new sections (or, if they do, MapHist does not hear about them). And each site (actually multiple sites) is very difficult to understand. I have attempted to list what can be found on the LC and BnF sites at and, with this update, have radically reworked the LC description, adding a number of extra pages. If anyone can improve on that, please let me know. Many (most?) webmasters seem to have little interest in promoting what they produce. What else has been added to 'Map History' in recent months (and not, as far as I know, reported to MapHist)? Here are a few random samples: * Several more sites with 300+ images [see , which now lists over 80, highlighting those of research quality] * The Wikipedia entry for the Vinland Map, to which, of course, anybody can contribute [please do *not* send comments about the entry to me] * Various additions to my (very subjective) listing of 'innovative sites' . [Please suggest additions] * 'Building a Globally Distributed Historical Sheet Map Set of Austro-Hungarian Topographic Maps, 1877-1914' [one of almost 50 entries on the 'Web Projects' page] * Several 'gateway' sites, offering (as does 'Map History') the best route into a specific topic * A site with over 450 links to pages relating to American Indians * A 345-page book on the US Army Topographical Engineers in the Mexican War [one of several complete texts linked from 'Map History'] * 83 of the Champlain Society's publications (fully searchable) * The complete text of a 2002 doctoral thesis (in Spanish) on the discovery of America * Two names, added today, to the list of those who have just obtained their doctorates [search for 'May 2005']. * 'Around the subject', e.g. Thomas Hardy's Maps of Wessex; the New South Wales Geographical Names Register (80,000 names, with historical notes); ' Repertorium van Nederlandse Kaartmakers 1500-1900' (230 pages, with information on 2000 individuals); 'Mythical Places'; Dictionary of Canadian Biography Online; Local and trade directories for England and Wales, from 1750 to 1919. I am sometimes told that gathering links is a waste of time because you can find everything on Google. Of course use search engines, but if you have not done so before, please take a look at 'Map History' as well. You may be surprised. Partly to avoid cluttering this message with URLs, but more to encourage you to go and explore 'Map History', I have omitted most of the links above. If you fail to find any please let me know. I hope they are where you would expect to find them. Or use the Sitesearch on the Homepage. Tony Campbell ***************************************** t.campbell@ockendon.clara.co.uk ****************************************** 'Map History / History of Cartography: THE Gateway to the Subject' http://www.maphistory.info/ [part of the WWW-Virtual Library] -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.3.3 - Release Date: 31/05/2005 _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=osGy0GMBShV56KqB7njBKatcZZQ6Ki1zVg+naZYVZMoGUN4sSaWzu5FWBOiKzPCjyESjcyhTBi263/Yh/TRfJh9MsHrt4hHXzetfFQ42v/FJeY08UDYCPwcGjRv7/RPFCPV16eFjvBUwdpNN/aV4uOyKKAOzyu9t+uncbQx4lJg= ; Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 14:47:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Jay Lester Subject: Re: [MapHist] Recent additions to the 'Map History' site URL correction To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.811 required=6.31 tests=AWL, BAYES_00 X-Spam-Level: http://www.brown.edu/Facilities/John_Carter_Brown_Library/pages/ea_hmpg.html corrected URL should end with "html" (the "l" was on a separate line and not part of the link in the original post: --- tony campbell wrote: > I do not remember having seen anything on MapHist about the recent > launch of > the John Carter Brown's 'Archive of Early American Images' > l> - unless an announcement was included in an existing thread. > > Given the JCB's stature as the leading research collection for early > Americana, this is a major development. ... Jay Lester Chapel Hill, NC mapsguy@yahoo.com __________________________________ Discover Yahoo! Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news and more. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/mobile.html _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: Batavier1@aol.com Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 10:16:56 EDT Subject: Re: [MapHist] Doetsz and Block Chart, Ft. Nassau, Albany To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5038 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.889 required=6.31 tests=AWL, BAYES_00, HTML_BADTAG_40_50, HTML_MESSAGE, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE, NO_REAL_NAME, SPF_HELO_PASS X-Spam-Level:

“The French stronghold, just below the present Albany, was built and
named  Fort Nassau”.  From: Wright, Henry Andrew THE STORY OF WESTERN MASSACHUSETTS NY:Lewis Historical  Publishing Co. 1949. Vol 1. (of 4) pp 83-84.

 

ANSWER: That’s called fractured history. This misinformation actually stems from
the Danckaert and Sluyter visit to Albany in 1679. They are taken down
to Castle Island and shown the remains of an old fort. Their guide
didn't know that it was the remains of Fort Nassau; instead told them
that it was the remains of a Spanish or French fort. From this piece of
folk etymology comes the myth of a French fort on the Hudson before the
arrival of Hudson. You only have to ask yourself the question, if there
was a fort there, why didn't Hudson see it? In any case, we know when
and by whom Fort Nassau was built. End of story.

 

This proves that you can never accept anything from secondary sources as the historical truth and even when from primary sources it must be validated as fact rather than hearsay.

 

Joep de Koning

X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 11:40:34 -0400 From: exjournal@aol.com X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 1.0.0.12281 Subject: Re: [MapHist] Doetsz and Block Chart, Ft. Nassau, Albany To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-AOL-IP: 64.12.136.50 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.026 required=6.31 tests=AWL, BAYES_00, HTML_MESSAGE, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER, NO_REAL_NAME, SPF_HELO_PASS X-Spam-Level:
You speak truth, which is a rare and precious commodity, particularly with respect to Hudson. Thank you! Even with primary materials in hand, the results must be tested against the realities of the situation. Hudson's orders in 1610 may have directed him to seek the Northwest Passage, but a rational sailing master would not have done what Hudson did, if that indeed were his goal. Carl Schuster 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Batavier1@aol.com
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Sent: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 10:16:56 EDT
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Doetsz and Block Chart, Ft. Nassau, Albany

“The French stronghold, just below the present Albany, was built and
named  Fort Nassau”.  From: Wright, Henry Andrew THE STORY OF WESTERN MASSACHUSETTS NY:Lewis Historical  Publishing Co. 1949. Vol 1. (of 4) pp 83-84.
 
ANSWER: That’s called fractured history. This misinformation actually stems from
the Danckaert and Sluyter visit to Albany in 1679. They are taken down
to Castle Island and shown the remains of an old fort. Their guide
didn't know that it was the remains of Fort Nassau; instead told them
that it was the remains of a Spanish or French fort. From this piece of
folk etymology comes the myth of a French fort on the Hudson before the
arrival of Hudson. You only have to ask yourself the question, if there
was a fort there, why didn't Hudson see it? In any case, we know when
and by whom Fort Nassau was built. End of story.
 
This proves that you can never accept anything from secondary sources as the historical truth and even when from primary sources it must be validated as fact rather than hearsay.
 
Joep de Koning
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-UNTD-OriginStamp: 2eKwMOrztJI3TYXd/wnwGqG0J10IV15uRdn6rRrksLAMh1bSME73SA== X-Originating-IP: [204.213.37.215] From: "Philip Hoehn" Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 17:31:29 GMT To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: [MapHist] John Carter Brown Archive of Early American Images X-Mailer: Webmail Version 3.0 X-ContentStamp: 12:6:1316980304 X-MAIL-INFO:2a19c964059065902919908001c1f46d44a024b0c514a484cd6dcdd4e4f0d555cd802d0c112d2540a925404d35404595a99dbdf015ed10bdd969e9896060213d74e0e57169044069754d500d110d4d04212db45400540d00c18970311131542091ed1d99d5c919a01990ad5905015960a074c0707dcd55e56dddb9946dfd659d659069cd657d19c040404d0045302030208df539958504496954e9807574e9210db5712d150d X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 10.131.27.173|webmail33.lax.untd.com|outbound29-sr.lax.untd.com|philhoehn@juno.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.807 required=6.31 tests=AWL, BAYES_00, FORGED_JUNO_RCVD X-Spam-Level: Armed in advance with advice from David Rumsey and being familiar with Luna Imaging's browser, I learned that to search this wonderful online collection of maps and other images you must: 1. Click on "datafields" 2. Click on "subject headings" (not to be confused with "geographic area" or "subject area" on the opening page) 3. Click on "equals" for a list of subject headings (including geographic headings -- some of which are severely truncated) 4. Click on desired heading(s) Philip Hoehn, Map Librarian San Francisco -- philhoehn@juno.com ----------------------------------- Contractor for David Rumsey Collection: http://www.davidrumsey.com -- "tony campbell" wrote: I do not remember having seen anything on MapHist about the recent launch of the John Carter Brown's 'Archive of Early American Images' - unless an announcement was included in an existing thread. Given the JCB's stature as the leading research collection for early Americana, this is a major development. A search on the subject section 'Geography, maps, city views and plans' found 774 images. The JCB is to be congratulated on presenting these so that they can be enlarged, with great clarity, to several times their original size. Since their collection includes many rarities, this growing archive is going to be a vital resource for researchers. However, I found the site slow and awkward to use. As far as I could see, the various indexes are unhelpful, retrieving irrelevant items. If anybody has the time to explore more thoroughly and finds a way to retrieve relevant hits via a geographical search, please let me know. Tony Campbell ***************************************** t.campbell@ockendon.clara.co.uk ****************************************** 'Map History / History of Cartography: THE Gateway to the Subject' http://www.maphistory.info/ [part of the WWW-Virtual Library]_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Sender: maphist15@mail.maphist.nl X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.2.0 Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 22:23:49 +0200 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: List-owner MapHist Subject: [MapHist] Exhibition in The Hague X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.599 required=6.31 tests=BAYES_00 X-Spam-Level: Not distributed automatically because of an illegal word. Peter From: "Francis Herbert" Although not consisting entirely of maps a number of items of sufficient = interest for such as s u b s cribe to this list (and a few other = map-oriented lists) are displayed in a new exhibition at KB/NA in The = Hague. The following publication is a useful accompaniment:- =20 De verdieping van Nederland : duizend jaar Nederland aan de hand van = topstukken uit de Koninklijke Bibliotheek en het Nationaal Archief / = [redactie: Deirdre Carasso, Matine Gosselink, Reinder Storm] =3D The = legacy of the Netherlands : a thousand years of Dutch history based on = treasures from the Koninklijke Bibliotheek and the Nationaal Archief / = [editors: Deirdre Carasso, Matine Gosselink, Reinder Storm]. - Den Haag = : Koninklijke Bibliotheek ; Nationaal Archief ; Amsterdam : sold by De = Buitenkant [, 2005]. - 224p. : ill., maps, portr. (chiefly col.) ; 28 = cm. - Bilingual (parallel) text. - Produced as an accompaniment to = exhibition of same name. - Includes ca 16 MS & printed cartogr. items = from that of Jerusalem produced in NW France in late 12th century (KB, = 76 F 5) to 'Limbourg Divis=E9 en arrondissments et cantons de Justice de = Paix' of C. van Baarsel et fils (La Haye, 1839) for Belgium & Holland = boundary Treaty (NA, Archief Min. Buitenlandse Zaken, Ratificaties en = verdragen, inv.nr. 110G). - ISBN 90-76452-65-2 =20 None of the writers who chose maps are well-known in the history of = cartography community; so this may add an 'unbiased' perspective to = their comments.. From what I was told, by one senior staff member there = on Monday, this exhibition may have to be listed as 'Indefinite' on John = Docktor's web-page of exhibitions = [http://home.earthlink.net/~docktor/exhibit.htm] as - so I understood - = portions/pieces will, over the coming months, be changed (perhaps rather = like a kaleidoscope?). But I am willing to be corrected by a Dutch = colleague. =20 NB: When I tired to pay by plastic for the above 'catalogue', at the = National Archives bookshop, the young lady told me this was not possible = (still in pen & paper era?)! =20 Francis Herbert f.herbert@rgs.org http://www.rgs.org [see 'Collections' - including = some online catalogues] _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-IronPort-AV: i="3.93,163,1115006400"; d="scan'208,217"; a="42456862:sNHT44379800" From: "Charles Burroughs" To: Subject: RE: [MapHist] Doetsz and Block Chart, Ft. Nassau, Albany Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 20:29:09 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.261 required=6.31 tests=AWL, BAYES_00, FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK, HTML_50_60, HTML_MESSAGE X-Spam-Level:
Thanks, Josep, for that clarification from Wright's quote.  Given the context of his "Story," I suspect that the farther back in time he tries to relate the "facts," the less reliable they might be.  Additionally, we now have more than 50 years of "scholarship" on the subject to reveal more of what might be called "truth."
 
I find it interesting that the author devotes considerable time in earlier chapters with his attempts to "shoot down" myths of the past such as the "fact" that the indigenous population of the East Coast did not live in tepees (tipis and other variants) but lived in wigwams, a variant sometimes mixed up with tepees (of the Western Indian).  The main difference being that the footprint of the wigwam was more apt to be rectangular than circular.  Now I've probably opened up a whole other can of worms, along with the "fact" that the log cabin came along generations after the Pilgrims landed and built their dwellings quite differently.
 
Charles
 
 -----Original Message-----
From: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl [mailto:owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl]On Behalf Of Batavier1@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 10:17 AM
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Doetsz and Block Chart, Ft. Nassau, Albany

“The French stronghold, just below the present Albany, was built and
named  Fort Nassau”.  From: Wright, Henry Andrew THE STORY OF WESTERN MASSACHUSETTS NY:Lewis Historical  Publishing Co. 1949. Vol 1. (of 4) pp 83-84.

 

ANSWER: That’s called fractured history. This misinformation actually stems from
the Danckaert and Sluyter visit to Albany in 1679. They are taken down
to Castle Island and shown the remains of an old fort. Their guide
didn't know that it was the remains of Fort Nassau; instead told them
that it was the remains of a Spanish or French fort. From this piece of
folk etymology comes the myth of a French fort on the Hudson before the
arrival of Hudson. You only have to ask yourself the question, if there
was a fort there, why didn't Hudson see it? In any case, we know when
and by whom Fort Nassau was built. End of story.

 

This proves that you can never accept anything from secondary sources as the historical truth and even when from primary sources it must be validated as fact rather than hearsay.

 

Joep de Koning

X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Sender: sanderva@pop.erols.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.1.1 Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 20:56:29 -0400 To: From: SHD Web Subject: [MapHist] 2005 Annual Meeting - Society for the History of Discoveries X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.4 required=6.31 tests=AWL, BAYES_00, HTML_20_30, HTML_MESSAGE, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE X-Spam-Level: To all map lovers, historians, explorers, and those interested in the history of discoveries:
 
1.  THE 2005 MEETING of the Society for the History of Discoveries will be held in Williamsburg and Newport News Virginia from October 6-9.  The preliminary program for the meeting, hotel and general information, and a registration form are available online at http://www.sochistdisc.org/annual_meetings/annual_2005/annual_meeting_2005.htm
Further information, such as the paper topics and their presenters, will be posted as soon as the information is finalized.  Refer often to this site for meeting updates.
PLEASE NOTE that there is a REDUCED REGISTRATION FEE for those whose registration form and payment is postmarked by September 1, 2005.
The meeting is open to all interested persons; you need not be a member of the Society.
Inquiries about this meeting should be sent directly to SHD Vice President Ralph Ehrenberg, 3117 Beechwood Lane, Falls Church, VA 22042, USA (Phone 703-538-0948; e-mail rehrenberg@aol.com ).
 
SPECIAL PRE-MEETING NON-SHD EVENT – October 4-6:  The Colonial Williamsburg Foundation is planning a multi-day “Mapping Colonial America” symposium for October 4-6.  It will likely begin with an opening presentation and reception on October 4, have presentations on October 5 and 6, and have a closing reception on October 6.  Their closing reception and the SHD opening reception will likely be a co-hosted event.  Further details are not immediately available but will be available directly from the Colonial Williamsburg organizers via the following website: http://www.colonialwilliamsburg.org/conted/  Please keep checking this site, as SHD is not involved in the details of the symposium or registration for it.  You may want to consider this symposium as you make travel plans.
 
2.   THE 2004 MEETING of the Society for the History of Discoveries was held in Cody, Wyoming from September 9-11.  The meeting summary, abstracts of all the presentations, PLUS photos of the meeting and the pre- and post-tours are available at the http://www.sochistdisc.org/annual_meetings/annual_2004/annual_meeting_2004.htm
 
3.   THE SOCIETY NEWSLETTER has been mailed to all members in good standing.  It has now been posted to the WMS Website and may be viewed at http://www.sochistdisc.org/news_letter/terra-cognita_1.htm
It contains a wealth of information about the activities of the Society and its membership.
 

***************************************************
Thomas F. Sander
SHD Web Content Manager
P.O. Box 10793
Burke, VA  22009-0793  USA

Tel:  703-426-2880              Fax:  703-426-2881
E-Mail:  sanderva@erols.com     Web:  www.sochistdisc.org

excuse cross-posting

X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Sender: docktor@pop.earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 21:24:04 -0400 To: F.Herbert@RGS.org From: "John W. Docktor" Subject: Re: [MapHist] Exhibition in The Hague Cc: p.vanderkrogt@geog.uu.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.594 required=6.31 tests=BAYES_00, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB, SPF_HELO_PASS, SPF_PASS X-Spam-Level: >De verdieping van Nederland : duizend jaar Nederland aan de hand van = >topstukken uit de Koninklijke Bibliotheek en het Nationaal Archief / = >[redactie: Deirdre Carasso, Matine Gosselink, Reinder Storm] =3D The = >legacy of the Netherlands : a thousand years of Dutch history based on = >treasures from the Koninklijke Bibliotheek and the Nationaal Archief / = >[editors: Deirdre Carasso, Matine Gosselink, Reinder Storm]. - Den Haag = Francis, I did list the exhibition on my Cartography - Calendar of Exhibitions http://www.kb.nl/webexpo/dvvn.html with an indefinite close. The web page is in Dutch, http://www.kb.nl/webexpo/dvvn.html, and I hope I translated it accurately. Please write to me if you or Peter have anything to add. John ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- John W. Docktor Phone: 717-846-8997 Fax: 717-845-9337 Cartography - Calendars of Events & Exhibitions: http://www.docktor.com/ Washington Map Society: http://www.washmap.org/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 21:03:26 -0700 From: Deborah Taylor-Pearce User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.5) Gecko/20041217 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: Re: [MapHist] Hudson memorabilia X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.46 required=6.31 tests=AWL, BAYES_00 X-Spam-Level: David, > I would be curious to hear more about > the knife that allegedly killed Hudson. > Was it made of steel or bone? Was it > wielded by a European or a Native > American? Beats me. For those of you who want to read the actual 1656 text for yourselves, I digitized page 46 of the catalog -- along with page 47, which has the description of Powhatan's mantle -- and posted it as part of the gallery exhibit on same: . Deborah _____ Deborah Taylor-Pearce dtp@she-philosopher.com _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: "Alan & Elaine Rogers" To: Subject: Re: [MapHist] Mapping the East Coast of Australia Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 16:47:41 +1000 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-TPG-Antivirus: Passed X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.029 required=6.31 tests=AWL, BAYES_00, HTML_50_60, HTML_MESSAGE, SPF_HELO_PASS X-Spam-Level: Message

Mr. Ross,
 
This is an amazing story of the debate that has raged on early charts. You mentioned a map that still exists. Can it be viewed and what information is available?
Regards Alan
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2005 7:14 AM
Subject: [MapHist] Mapping the East Coast of Australia

Mr Rogers 
 
Unwittingly perhaps you have reopened a can of worms.
 
The Dieppe school of charts display two particular coastlines, one in the southwest Pacific, and the other in the eastern Indian ocean, which had not previously appeared on European charts.
 
 
Argument has raged about whether these two coastlines represented actual discoveries, whether they were misplaced knowledge, whether the information was misrepresented, or whether these coastlines were inventions of the mapmaker's imagination.
 
Leading the support team for the first option - actual discoveries - is the late Helen Wallis who is perhaps the most recognised and respected scholar on the subject.
 
The misplaced camp believe there is real information but the location on the Dieppe charts is in error (and it is not Australia but Vietnam or elsewhere). Bill Richardson is a champion of that camp - using the toponomy issue to further argue his case.  The late Professor Andrew Sharp - the Tasman expert - is a Sumatra member of this school of thought. Both also use shape as a key determinant in their arguments.
 
People like McIntyre are members of the camp who accept the knowledge but adopt a technical interpretation of that information to change the mapped representation of the knowledge to a form that, perhaps coincidentally, matches modern knowledge. Thus the misrepresentation school.
 
Then there are those who dismiss the images outright because they believe there is no supporting information....
 
What is often forgotten in these debates is that there are a number of key elements that constitute a chart or map.
 
The first is knowledge of the edge of the ocean in a particular location. We need to remember that the knowledge came from sailors. They marked not the edge of the land, but the edge of the ocean they sailed on. Their estimations of their locations might not have been accurate, but their real knowledge was concrete. A mapmaker attempted to record that knowledge, which may come from a rough chart, or a ship's log, or sailing instructions, eye-witness accounts, or a combination of these sources.
 
Secondly, the toponomy of a map may or may not have come from the same source. If it did not, then it may or may not relate to that chart. If it did, then the mapmaker's interpretation could have encountered translation difficulties. If a chart-maker has combined two sources...with a translation problem...and a possible problem with the accuracy of transcription, then the toponomy view diminishes significantly in value.
 
The validity of the chart's coastline does not then necessarily depend on the toponomy as Bill Richardson argues in W.A.R. Richardson's The Portuguese Discovery of Australia : fact or fiction?.  Canberra, National Library of Australia, 1989. Helen Wallis argued strongly against his view.
 
If we couple that with Bill's dependence on the similarity of physical characteristics of the particular edge of the ocean (Vietnam), then we can apply the same argument Maura is using to challenge other views, against her own arguments, and, in the end, Bill Richardson's case.
 
To look at the matter in another way:
 
Imagine you have an 16th century ms chart that shows these two core east and west Dieppe School coastlines, separated from any other coastlines. They appear as apparent independent discoveries.
 
Imagine these coastlines and their individual highlights have no toponomological? identification.
 
Imagine the physical location is reasonably accurate.
 
Imagine it is of Spanish origin...not French (Dieppe) or Portuguese.
 
Such a chart exists.
 
Michael

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Ross
Voice: +64.21.897.889
Fax:    +64.21.218.2166
michael.ross@clear.net.nz


Legal Notice:
The information in this electronic mail message is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to, or use of, this Internet electronic mail message by anyone else is not authorised. Please delete all copies of this message if you are not the intended addressee.

X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 19:56:37 +1200 From: Michael Ross Subject: RE: [MapHist] Mapping the East Coast of Australia To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.534 required=6.31 tests=AWL, BAYES_00, HTML_50_60, HTML_MESSAGE X-Spam-Level: Message
Mr Rogers
 
As we appear to be the only participants in this discussion I will take it offline and email you directly.
 
Regards
 
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl [mailto:owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl]On Behalf Of Alan & Elaine Rogers
Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 6:48 PM
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Mapping the East Coast of Australia

Mr. Ross,
 
This is an amazing story of the debate that has raged on early charts. You mentioned a map that still exists. Can it be viewed and what information is available?
Regards Alan
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2005 7:14 AM
Subject: [MapHist] Mapping the East Coast of Australia

Mr Rogers 
 
Unwittingly perhaps you have reopened a can of worms.
 
The Dieppe school of charts display two particular coastlines, one in the southwest Pacific, and the other in the eastern Indian ocean, which had not previously appeared on European charts.
 
 
Argument has raged about whether these two coastlines represented actual discoveries, whether they were misplaced knowledge, whether the information was misrepresented, or whether these coastlines were inventions of the mapmaker's imagination.
 
Leading the support team for the first option - actual discoveries - is the late Helen Wallis who is perhaps the most recognised and respected scholar on the subject.
 
The misplaced camp believe there is real information but the location on the Dieppe charts is in error (and it is not Australia but Vietnam or elsewhere). Bill Richardson is a champion of that camp - using the toponomy issue to further argue his case.  The late Professor Andrew Sharp - the Tasman expert - is a Sumatra member of this school of thought. Both also use shape as a key determinant in their arguments.
 
People like McIntyre are members of the camp who accept the knowledge but adopt a technical interpretation of that information to change the mapped representation of the knowledge to a form that, perhaps coincidentally, matches modern knowledge. Thus the misrepresentation school.
 
Then there are those who dismiss the images outright because they believe there is no supporting information....
 
What is often forgotten in these debates is that there are a number of key elements that constitute a chart or map.
 
The first is knowledge of the edge of the ocean in a particular location. We need to remember that the knowledge came from sailors. They marked not the edge of the land, but the edge of the ocean they sailed on. Their estimations of their locations might not have been accurate, but their real knowledge was concrete. A mapmaker attempted to record that knowledge, which may come from a rough chart, or a ship's log, or sailing instructions, eye-witness accounts, or a combination of these sources.
 
Secondly, the toponomy of a map may or may not have come from the same source. If it did not, then it may or may not relate to that chart. If it did, then the mapmaker's interpretation could have encountered translation difficulties. If a chart-maker has combined two sources...with a translation problem...and a possible problem with the accuracy of transcription, then the toponomy view diminishes significantly in value.
 
The validity of the chart's coastline does not then necessarily depend on the toponomy as Bill Richardson argues in W.A.R. Richardson's The Portuguese Discovery of Australia : fact or fiction?.  Canberra, National Library of Australia, 1989. Helen Wallis argued strongly against his view.
 
If we couple that with Bill's dependence on the similarity of physical characteristics of the particular edge of the ocean (Vietnam), then we can apply the same argument Maura is using to challenge other views, against her own arguments, and, in the end, Bill Richardson's case.
 
To look at the matter in another way:
 
Imagine you have an 16th century ms chart that shows these two core east and west Dieppe School coastlines, separated from any other coastlines. They appear as apparent independent discoveries.
 
Imagine these coastlines and their individual highlights have no toponomological? identification.
 
Imagine the physical location is reasonably accurate.
 
Imagine it is of Spanish origin...not French (Dieppe) or Portuguese.
 
Such a chart exists.
 
Michael

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Ross
Voice: +64.21.897.889
Fax:    +64.21.218.2166
michael.ross@clear.net.nz


Legal Notice:
The information in this electronic mail message is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to, or use of, this Internet electronic mail message by anyone else is not authorised. Please delete all copies of this message if you are not the intended addressee.

X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 09:05:14 +0100 From: Doug Weller To: Michael Ross Subject: Re: [MapHist] Mapping the East Coast of Australia X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.145 required=6.31 tests=AWL, BAYES_00, PRIORITY_NO_NAME, SPF_HELO_PASS X-Spam-Level: Hi Michael, Friday, June 3, 2005, 8:56:37 AM, you wrote: MR> As we appear to be the only participants in this discussion I MR> will take it offline and email you directly. I've been reading it! Doug -- Doug Weller Moderator, sci.archaeology.moderated Submissions to:sci-archaeology-moderated@medieval.org Doug and Helen's Dogs: http://www.dougandhelen.com Doug's Archaeology Site: http://www.ramtops.co.uk _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: Dyallen2@aol.com Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 11:57:25 EDT Subject: Re: [MapHist] Mapping the East Coast of Australia To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5200 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.938 required=6.31 tests=AWL, BAYES_00, HTML_30_40, HTML_MESSAGE, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE, NO_REAL_NAME, SPF_HELO_PASS X-Spam-Level:
    I often find these discussions of specialized topics quite interesting, even though they are "out of my area" and I have nothing to contribute.  I vote for sending messages like these to the list.  They are easy enough to delete if the subject gets too boring.
 
    Well, actually in this case I did find something to contribute.  There is a manuscript map of the Americas by Guillaume G. Brouscon (1543) that extends South America to the east and seems to conflate it with Australia.  It makes South America have almost the same shape as Australia on modern maps.  Strange stuff.  It is reproduced as Plate XXV in Portinaro and Knirsch, The Cartography of North America.  Any thoughts about how this map came to be?
 
    By the way, I bought this beautiful book for only $4.95 on one of the big used book Web sites.  It has many wonderful color reproductions of manuscript maps that are not easily available elsewhere.  There are real bargains in gently aged coffee table type map books to be found at sites like Alibris and Abe Books.
 
David Allen
La Mesa, CA
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=sJEirkVhmMbkNAQZ0v1vtmEK7zLVqpoHNF46pc8sB7UjER1960dh3yq0rtctGkCJ1jgyON4T3xfymFwRklX0+G2T6FjLYjG/XIINcUJ9o1e9Vy4pAtoHTD7giMKDdF32l6NGLfNZ91ugtMCKHf4e8GwJXa3cJWWst9dclcpJYuM= Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 21:12:20 +0200 From: Andre Engels To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: Re: [MapHist] Mapping the East Coast of Australia X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.523 required=6.31 tests=AWL, BAYES_00, RCVD_BY_IP, SPF_HELO_PASS X-Spam-Level: On 6/3/05, Dyallen2@aol.com wrote: > Well, actually in this case I did find something to contribute. There > is a manuscript map of the Americas by Guillaume G. Brouscon (1543) that > extends South America to the east and seems to conflate it with Australia. > It makes South America have almost the same shape as Australia on modern > maps. Strange stuff. It is reproduced as Plate XXV in Portinaro and > Knirsch, The Cartography of North America. Any thoughts about how this map > came to be? Having only the internet to check from, where there is only a small-size copy on which nothing but the general outline can be seen, I would still want to take issue with your statement that South America seems to be conflated with Australia - a better candidate for Australia, regarding the position at least, would be the representation of 'Greater Java' (as a peninsula of Terra Australis). However,hat this western extension of South America *does* represent, I have no answer to. Andre Engels _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: "J. B. Post" To: Subject: [MapHist] Upcoming publication Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 21:24:29 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.264 required=6.31 tests=AWL, BAYES_00, HTML_40_50, HTML_MESSAGE X-Spam-Level:
   The Summer (v.42 #3) issue (planned to be out in August) of the TREDYFFRIN EASTTOWN HISTORY QUARTERLY is to have the edited text of Andy Amsterdam's talk to the Tredyffrin Easttown Historical Society on the mapping of the Main Line, the area of the western Philadelphia suburbs along the Pennsylvania Railroad tracks with an emphasis on the property atlases.  The Society isn't equiped to issue invoices  for library orders and asks for checks or other financial instruments in advance.  Yes, the interest is limited.  Cost of the issue is $5 and domestic US postage is an additional $2.  I don't have international rates at hand.  As the work on the issue unfolds, I will keep the list informed.  This is just the first announcement, an advance warning, so to speak. 
 
 
J. B. Post
Distribution Manager, TREDYFFRIN EASTTOWN HISTORY QUARTERLY
244 Vincent Rd.
Paoli, PA   19301
610/725-0229
 
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 07:05:52 -0400 From: jsk@gamewood.net Subject: [MapHist] literary map of Manhattan To: MapHist X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.425 required=6.31 tests=AWL, BAYES_00, MSGID_FROM_MTA_ID, NO_REAL_NAME X-Spam-Level: This is a rather interesting (and interactive) item: There is an explanation of the project in the same issue (today) at: A quote from then end of the article by Rany Cohen: "This articulates what could be our cartographic motto: a strong sense of specificity, even though everything is made up." Joel Kovarsky _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: "J. B. Post" To: Subject: [MapHist] Cemetery maps Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 07:52:29 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.35 required=6.31 tests=AWL, BAYES_00, HTML_40_50, HTML_MESSAGE X-Spam-Level:
   Off-list, I was asked if a certain cemetery might be included in maps of Philadelphia's western suburbs.  It wouldn't, but the question does raise the whole matter of maps of cemeteries.  Along with maps of golf courses and landscaped gardens open to the public, cemetery maps are not usually your standard commercial cartographic product, but more often the results of special commissions.  One might find outlines and possibly the paths within such places on general maps of an area, but the detailed plot layout is more often found on special maps.  Is the world ready for an atlas of cemeteries?  Probably not, but such maps are found in map collections, often only of local burial places.
 
   In my quick & dirty survey of US map copyright litigation, I found one case involving a cemetery map and another involving a golf course. 
 
                    JBP
 
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=NgnYByxEu3Vl0UFzQbJDCtYRJ/fvWQWDM7r0JnOWK3OfozUmOitVu45XzZhN9qauIhYfMkzC1AqaeXTDN9tEh56UXzZ3qEuLVeGmYEktWBBwgTmym3IXfeZvUMWR9Gl5TYwXVXxgJBcYbtrvg2FPuyW2pBWYsmVCIGKP9KvDIkY= ; Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 07:18:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Jay Lester Subject: [MapHist] Can't access John Carter Brown Archive of Early American Images To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.965 required=6.31 tests=AWL, BAYES_00 X-Spam-Level: Phil, Thanks for the navigation help for the JCB site. I'm afraid I'm in need of more basic help since I can't even get to the web site. When I choose Insight® 5.1 Browser link, I get to the login where I enter jcbresearcher and researcher as instructed, then (if my browser doesn't just close completely), I get to the "select a collection" screen where the only option is the JCBL Archive of Early American Images, which of course, is what I'm looking for. Unfortunately, the "Select" button on that screen just puts me in an endless loop where that screen keeps reloading. Any advice from you or the JCB folks on the list would be greatly appreciated. Could it have something to do with my IE 6.0 settings since I can't use Insight Browser at www.davidrumsey.com? I have no problem accessing the David Rumsey Collection using the Insight software download. Any other MapHisters have similar problem? Thanks, Jay L. --- Philip Hoehn wrote: > > Armed in advance with advice from David Rumsey and being familiar > with Luna Imaging's browser, I learned that to search this wonderful > online collection of maps and other images you must: > > 1. Click on "datafields" > 2. Click on "subject headings" (not to be confused with "geographic > area" or "subject area" on the opening page) > 3. Click on "equals" for a list of subject headings (including > geographic headings -- some of which are severely truncated) > 4. Click on desired heading(s) > > Philip Hoehn, Map Librarian > San Francisco -- philhoehn@juno.com > ----------------------------------- > Contractor for David Rumsey Collection: > http://www.davidrumsey.com > > -- "tony campbell" wrote: >... recent launch of > the John Carter Brown's 'Archive of Early American Images' > - unless an announcement was included in an existing thread. > > Given the JCB's stature as the leading research collection for early > Americana, this is a major development. A search on the subject > section > 'Geography, maps, city views and plans' found 774 images. The JCB is > to be > congratulated on presenting these so that they can be enlarged, with > great > clarity, to several times their original size. Since their > collection > includes many rarities, this growing archive is going to be a vital > resource > for researchers. > > However, I found the site slow and awkward to use. As far as I could > see, > the various indexes are unhelpful, retrieving irrelevant items. If > anybody > has the time to explore more thoroughly and finds a way to retrieve > relevant > hits via a geographical search, please let me know. > > > Tony Campbell > ***************************************** > t.campbell@ockendon.clara.co.uk > > ****************************************** > 'Map History / History of Cartography: THE Gateway to the Subject' > http://www.maphistory.info/ > [part of the WWW-Virtual > Library]_______________________________________________________________ __________________________________ Discover Yahoo! Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing and more. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/stayintouch.html _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: "Michael Hopper" To: Subject: Re: [MapHist] Can't access John Carter Brown Archive of Early American Images Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 10:35:28 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.792 required=6.31 tests=AWL, BAYES_00 X-Spam-Level: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay Lester" To: Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2005 10:18 AM Subject: [MapHist] Can't access John Carter Brown Archive of Early American Images > > Phil, > > Thanks for the navigation help for the JCB site. I'm afraid I'm in need > of more basic help since I can't even get to the web site. When I > choose Insight® 5.1 Browser link, I get to the login where I enter > jcbresearcher and researcher as instructed, then (if my browser doesn't > just close completely), I get to the "select a collection" screen where > the only option is the JCBL Archive of Early American Images, which of > course, is what I'm looking for. Unfortunately, the "Select" button on > that screen just puts me in an endless loop where that screen keeps > reloading. Any advice from you or the JCB folks on the list would be > greatly appreciated. Could it have something to do with my IE 6.0 > settings since I can't use Insight Browser at www.davidrumsey.com? I > have no problem accessing the David Rumsey Collection using the Insight > software download. > Any other MapHisters have similar problem? > Thanks, > Jay L. > Jay I have much the same difficulties. On first going to the site the login prompt appears on invoking Insight but then the browser closes before you can do anything. On returning to the URL the browser immediately closes with no options available. Using IE6.0 on MS XP. mike _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 11:09:28 -0400 From: jsk@gamewood.net Subject: Re: [MapHist] Can't access John Carter Brown Archive of Early American Images To: MapHist X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.406 required=6.31 tests=AWL, BAYES_00, MSGID_FROM_MTA_ID, NO_REAL_NAME X-Spam-Level: >Jay > >I have much the same difficulties. Pardon if this goes through twice, but I wasn't sure my browser loaded the last post. I am able to access the site, but only with IE6 (Mozilla Firefox won't work). And you have to allow site popups, or it stops. If you have telephone connections, this will be exceptionally tedious. I am working from a high speed DSL line here, and it takes a few moments for things to process. Joel Kovarsky _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 13:00:26 -0400 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: John Day Subject: Re: [MapHist] Can't access John Carter Brown Archive of Early American Images X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.839 required=6.31 tests=AWL, BAYES_00 X-Spam-Level: It works fine for me on a Mac running OS X 3.9 using IE5.2, Safari or Firefox as a browser. I did have to turn off blocking of pop-up windows in Firefox. Sounds like an OS problem. Take care, John > >Jay >> >>I have much the same difficulties. > >Pardon if this goes through twice, but I wasn't sure my browser >loaded the last post. I am able to access the site, but only with >IE6 (Mozilla Firefox won't work). And you have to allow site popups, >or it stops. If you have telephone connections, this will be >exceptionally tedious. I am working from a high speed DSL line here, >and it takes a few moments for things to process. > > Joel Kovarsky > > > >_______________________________________________________________ >MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography >hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. >The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of >the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of >Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for >the views of the author. >List Information: http://www.maphist.info _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 13:17:00 -0400 From: jsk@gamewood.net Subject: Re: [MapHist] Can't access John Carter Brown Archive of EarlyAmerican Images To: MapHist X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.445 required=6.31 tests=AWL, BAYES_00, MSGID_FROM_MTA_ID, NO_REAL_NAME X-Spam-Level: I see what happened with Firefox. I'd allowed popups at the Brown Univ. site, but had to also do that for the secondary page that appears from Luna Imaging. Joel Kovarsky ------ Original Message ------ From: John Day To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Sent: Jun 04, 2005 05:00 PM Subject: Re: [MapHist] Can't access John Carter Brown Archive of EarlyAmerican Images >It works fine for me on a Mac running OS X 3.9 using IE5.2, Safari or >Firefox as a browser. I did have to turn off blocking of pop-up >windows in Firefox. > >Sounds like an OS problem. > >Take care, >John > > > >> >Jay >>> >>>I have much the same difficulties. >> >>Pardon if this goes through twice, but I wasn't sure my browser >>loaded the last post. I am able to access the site, but only with >>IE6 (Mozilla Firefox won't work). And you have to allow site popups, >>or it stops. If you have telephone connections, this will be >>exceptionally tedious. I am working from a high speed DSL line here, >>and it takes a few moments for things to process. >> >> Joel Kovarsky >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________________________ >>MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography >>hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. >>The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of >>the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of >>Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for >>the views of the author. >>List Information: http://www.maphist.info > >_______________________________________________________________ >MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography >hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. >The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of >the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of >Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for >the views of the author. >List Information: http://www.maphist.info > > _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=CGVqsNKLh6Vdbni6vbMg+zmYKUBgHjqLYFNSGHeN4UUpegAgITYFiB4zONTTRLjxF34Wa+/77EmNjvbnIJEtdinxMP9b1qUwwjkA2+siBtc9glbVmzFYIKOSKaQi7HFZvg91qHu2hWFyAniXT8UICFXcw9YkWZW2vM7SWeDyxWc= ; Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 13:12:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Jay Lester Subject: Re: [MapHist] Can't access John Carter Brown Archive of Early American Images To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.03 required=6.31 tests=AWL, BAYES_00 X-Spam-Level: My apologies for turning this into a tech support forum, but I'd sure like to be able to access the JCB site. With regards to recent posts, I had already tried it with my ISP pop up blocker disabled, and I don't use IE's annoying pop up blocker. Perhaps on Monday someone at JCB Library or Insight will provide some insight. Regards, Jay L. --- John Day wrote: > It works fine for me on a Mac running OS X 3.9 using IE5.2, Safari or > > Firefox as a browser. I did have to turn off blocking of pop-up > windows in Firefox. > > Sounds like an OS problem. > > Take care, > John > > > > > >Jay > >> > >>I have much the same difficulties. > __________________________________ Discover Yahoo! Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news and more. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/mobile.html _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: "J. B. Post" To: Subject: [MapHist] Fake atlas Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 20:27:32 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.231 required=6.31 tests=AWL, BAYES_00, HTML_50_60, HTML_MESSAGE X-Spam-Level:
   While getting office supplies at Staples, a large US office supply chain, I noticed a lock box disguised as a book with "World Atlas" on what passes for the spine.  It is so obviously fake that it would be the first place a burglar would look.  Probably an atlas is the second most innocuous book on a shelf, religious texts being the first.  There have been actual books hollowed out and a plastic container put inside which have been sold as a secure place to keep valuables, but the lock box doesn't look much like a book.
 
   I have also seen a storage container for CDs designed to look like a leather-bound book. 
 
                 JBP
 
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-UNTD-OriginStamp: 2eKwMOrztJI3TYXd/wnwGgNz4AyXDNDVOCKZH6UGtQkUjrFuWNbRZA== X-Originating-IP: [4.243.149.54] From: "Philip Hoehn" Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 16:55:48 GMT To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: Re: [MapHist] Can't access John Carter Brown Archive of Early American Images X-Mailer: Webmail Version 3.0 X-ContentStamp: 34:17:3257764251 X-MAIL-INFO:1ec5b994559d449d85c59dfd654550a4dd41315414703d99d5a4d5b084a01dd0d5fd74e94974f00421f00469b1042d40213480a001257d8090c0ad4de4e4d92005195129c0e004c06069e1bd49bd69e0d97481117511bd75454d8d304930110d952589091db9c541c59d64c95565c9e44105108dd4d5d051a479d1f9a4f44434449dc0d544d4c5102d2171810c490c250d21b1f530c49de429fda07419c0f57519a074d99580f0bd39612160401561810c11f069a12da90000c1d5d534d4f494c494c47d4441cd401d24a1557935b0e179a4a519915070a5 X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 10.131.27.143|webmail03.lax.untd.com|outbound29-sr.lax.untd.com|philhoehn@juno.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.8 required=6.31 tests=AWL, BAYES_00, FORGED_JUNO_RCVD, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB X-Spam-Level: Passing along a suggestion that it must be a problem with one's IE 6.0 settings, although uncertain what the issue is. Apparently the next version of the Luna browser may make it not so dependent on these kinds of settings. Problem must that a popup blocker is on without being aware of it. Philip Hoehn, Map Librarian San Francisco -- philhoehn@juno.com ----------------------------------- Contractor for David Rumsey Collection: http://www.davidrumsey.com -- Jay Lester wrote: Phil, Thanks for the navigation help for the JCB site. I'm afraid I'm in need of more basic help since I can't even get to the web site. When I choose Insight® 5.1 Browser link, I get to the login where I enter jcbresearcher and researcher as instructed, then (if my browser doesn't just close completely), I get to the "select a collection" screen where the only option is the JCBL Archive of Early American Images, which of course, is what I'm looking for. Unfortunately, the "Select" button on that screen just puts me in an endless loop where that screen keeps reloading. Any advice from you or the JCB folks on the list would be greatly appreciated. Could it have something to do with my IE 6.0 settings since I can't use Insight Browser at www.davidrumsey.com? I have no problem accessing the David Rumsey Collection using the Insight software download. Any other MapHisters have similar problem? Thanks, Jay L. --- Philip Hoehn wrote: > > Armed in advance with advice from David Rumsey and being familiar > with Luna Imaging's browser, I learned that to search this wonderful > online collection of maps and other images you must: > > 1. Click on "datafields" > 2. Click on "subject headings" (not to be confused with "geographic > area" or "subject area" on the opening page) > 3. Click on "equals" for a list of subject headings (including > geographic headings -- some of which are severely truncated) > 4. Click on desired heading(s) > > Philip Hoehn, Map Librarian > San Francisco -- philhoehn@juno.com > ----------------------------------- > Contractor for David Rumsey Collection: > http://www.davidrumsey.com > > -- "tony campbell" wrote: >... recent launch of > the John Carter Brown's 'Archive of Early American Images' > - unless an announcement was included in an existing thread. > > Given the JCB's stature as the leading research collection for early > Americana, this is a major development. A search on the subject > section > 'Geography, maps, city views and plans' found 774 images. The JCB is > to be > congratulated on presenting these so that they can be enlarged, with > great > clarity, to several times their original size. Since their > collection > includes many rarities, this growing archive is going to be a vital > resource > for researchers. > > However, I found the site slow and awkward to use. As far as I could > see, > the various indexes are unhelpful, retrieving irrelevant items. If > anybody > has the time to explore more thoroughly and finds a way to retrieve > relevant > hits via a geographical search, please let me know. > > > Tony Campbell > ***************************************** > t.campbell@ockendon.clara.co.uk > > ****************************************** > 'Map History / History of Cartography: THE Gateway to the Subject' > http://www.maphistory.info/ > [part of the WWW-Virtual > Library]_______________________________________________________________ __________________________________ Discover Yahoo! Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing and more. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/stayintouch.html _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 19:10:09 +1000 From: Robert Cribb User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: Re: [MapHist] Mapping the East Coast of Australia X-PMX-Version: 4.7.1.128075, Antispam-Engine: 2.0.3.2, Antispam-Data: 2005.6.6.2 internal X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.599 required=6.3 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Level: Doug Weller wrote: >Hi Michael, > > >Friday, June 3, 2005, 8:56:37 AM, you wrote: > >MR> As we appear to be the only participants in this discussion I >MR> will take it offline and email you directly. > >I've been reading it! > >Doug > > > So have I! Please continue to let us observe! Robert -- Robert Cribb Pacific and Asian History, RSPAS The Australian National University Canberra ACT 0200, Australia Tel. +61 2 6125 4247 Fax +61 2 6125 5525 e-mail robert.cribb@anu.edu.au _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: TKashuba@aol.com Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 13:45:59 EDT Subject: [MapHist] Status of Map Collection Survey To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5038 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.167 required=6.3 tests=[AWL=1.300, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_50_60=0.087, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.039, NO_REAL_NAME=0.007, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Level:
Dear List:
 
About a year ago there was a call to submit survey forms for the update of a guide to map libraries and map collections.  Does anyone recall the name of the organization and when the publication will be available.
 
Thank you.
 
Best Wishes,
 
Melinda Kashuba
Redding, California
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 14:44:05 -0500 From: "Angie Cope, AGSL" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: Re: [MapHist] Status of Map Collection Survey X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.51 on 129.89.7.46 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.589 required=6.3 tests=[AWL=0.010, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Level: Hi Melinda (and everyone else), The Map and Geography Round Table of the American Library Association recently put out a survey of U.S. Libraries. Is that the survey you're thinking of? Reportedly, the editor is reviewing the proofs as we speak and it should be available from ALA soon. Christopher J. J. Thiry, Colorado School of Mines, is the editor. He can be reached here: 303-273-3697 or cthiry@mines.edu Kind regards, Angie TKashuba@aol.com wrote: > Dear List: > > About a year ago there was a call to submit survey forms for the > update of a guide to map libraries and map collections. Does anyone > recall the name of the organization and when the publication will be > available. > > Thank you. > > Best Wishes, > > Melinda Kashuba > Redding, California -- *********************************************** ANGIE COPE American Geographical Society Library 2311 E. Hartford Avenue Milwaukee, Wisconsin 53201 http://www.uwm.edu/Libraries/AGSL/index.html Hours: 8:00am-4:30pm acope@uwm.edu (414) 229-6282 (800) 558-8993 (US TOLL FREE) (414) 229-3624 (FAX) Map Librarian, MAPS-L Moderator http://www.uwm.edu/Libraries/AGSL/welcome_to_mapsl%20forum.html *********************************************** _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Sender: maphist15@mail.maphist.nl X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.2.0 Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 22:09:26 +0200 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl (by way of List-owner MapHist ) Subject: [MapHist] Upper Canada Map Society X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.321 required=6.3 tests=[AWL=0.278, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Level: Non-member submission from ["Webster's Fine Books & Maps" ] For All Fellow Map Enthusiasts: We will be organizing an informal and informative session at the Toronto Metro Reference Library, 789 Yonge Street, Beeton West room, Tuesday June 21st, 6-7.30 p.m. to establish the "Upper Canada Map Society". The "Upper Canada Map Society" aims to provide a friendly and accessible environment to promote the study and collection of antiquarian maps, atlases & cartographic items. The Society will schedule lectures by experts in the field and organize outings to view public and private collections and exhibitions. We also hope to provide a newsletter (either twice or three times a year) announcing upcoming meetings, lectures, feature articles, book reviews, exhibitions etc. Membership is open to librarians, curators, mapsellers, and anyone interested in the history of cartography. Please RSVP to Megan Webster webstermaps@sympatico.ca (416-484-6375) if you would like to attend. Megan Webster Webster's Fine Books & Maps Toronto, Canada www.webstermaps.com _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: [MapHist] delist Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 10:36:00 -0400 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: delist Thread-Index: AcVrbjmiZh1rsWOcStu9gEe1R9v78Q== From: "Hyman, John" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Jun 2005 14:36:00.0879 (UTC) FILETIME=[39B6E7F0:01C56B6E] X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAQ= X-Whitelist: TRUE X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.058 required=6.3 tests=[AWL=0.376, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_90_100=0.022, HTML_FONT_BIG=0.142, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] X-Spam-Level:

My computer doesn’t seem to want to speak to your computer therefore I

must resort to prosaic person-to-someone e-mail to request that I be

delisted as a maphist subscriber.

 

jhyman@cwf.org

X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: overlee@verizon.net To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: [MapHist] NYTimes.com: Rare Map Identifying 'America' on Auction X-Originating-IP: [151.203.186.209] X-Initiated-By: [nytimes.com website user] Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 20:57:47 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.985 required=6.3 tests=[AWL=0.907, BAYES_20=-1.951, HTML_80_90=0.146, HTML_FONT_BIG=0.142, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MSGID_FROM_MTA_ID=1.723, NO_REAL_NAME=0.007, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, URI_REDIRECTOR=0.011] X-Spam-Level: E-Mail This
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A chance of a lifetime for maphisters. Martin Torodash

INTERNATIONAL   | June 7, 2005
Rare Map Identifying 'America' on Auction
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
LONDON (AP) -- A nearly 500-year-old map from the first set to identify the New World as ''America'' and depict the Pacific Ocean is being auctioned Wednesday.


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X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2005 10:58:58 -0400 From: "W. Frederick Zimmerman, ISciences LLC" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: [MapHist] early maps of land use and land cover X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.082 required=6.3 tests=[AWL=0.541, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_HELO_SOFTFAIL=3.14] X-Spam-Level: * Hello, I am looking for references to early maps focusing on the theme of land cover and land use -- i.e. classifying natural vegetation (forest, shrubs, etc.) and classifying human uses of land (urban, cultivated, etc.) I am writing an on-line guide to global land cover/land use data sets and want to provide some historical context. Fred -- W. Frederick Zimmerman Research Scientist ISciences, LLC 300 N. Fifth Ave #120 Ann Arbor, MI, USA 48104 wfz@isciences.com _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: "tony campbell" To: "*Lismaps" , "*MapHist" Subject: [MapHist] Next 'Maps and Society' lecture programme Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 16:04:51 +0100 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.576 required=6.3 tests=[AWL=0.023, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Level: [posted to lismaps and MapHist] ************************* 'MAPS AND SOCIETY' The Warburg Institute Fifteenth Series: 2005-2006 ************************* Lectures in the history of cartography convened by Catherine Delano Smith (Institute of Historical Research) and Tony Campbell (formerly Map Library, British Library). Meetings are held on selected Thursdays at The Warburg Institute, University of London,Woburn Square, London WC1H OAB at 5.00 pm. Admission is free. Meetings are followed by refreshments. All are most welcome. Enquiries: +44 (0) 20 8346 5112 (Dr Delano Smith) or < t.campbell@ockendon.clara.co.uk >. 2005 ------ November 3. Dr Jacinta Prunty (Department of Modern History, National University of Ireland, Maynooth / Research Fellow, Irish Research Council for the Humanities and Social Sciences), The Military Imperative for Town Mapping: Galway City, Ireland, 1580s to 1740s. November 17. Dr Sonja Brentjes (Associate Professor, Aga Khan Institute, London), 'A Contextual Interpretation of the World Map by Iskandar-Sultan (d. 1414) in the Topkapi Saray, Istanbul'. 2006 ----- MEETING SPONSORED BY THE HAKLUYT SOCIETY February 16. Emeritus Professor Bruce Lenman (Department of History, University of St Andrews) Cartographic Intelligence and the French Navy in the Caribbean, c.1679-1711. March 9. Ashley Baynton Williams (Editor, Map Forum) Coaxing the Buyer: Financing and Marketing Broadsheet Maps in 17th and 18th Century Britain. April 6. Veronica Della Dora (Post-doctoral Fellow, Getty Research Institute, Los Angeles, U.S.A.) Mapping Mount Athos: Renaissance and Enlightenment Visions. 'The Map in Book History' May 4. Anne Bush (University of Hawaii at Manoa / University of Oxford) Inscribing the City: Visual Itineraries in Nineteenth-Century Guidebooks to Rome. May 25. Dr Camille Serchuk (Department of Art History, Southern Connecticut State University, U.S.A) Picturing France in the Fifteenth Century: a New (Old) Map. -------------------------------------------------------------- This programme has been made possible through the generous sponsorship of The International Map Collectors' Society, Jonathan Potter of Jonathan Potter Ltd., and Laurence Worms of Ash Rare Books. Each lecture is accompanied by a display, at the Royal Geographical Society, Kensington, arranged by Francis Herbert, Hon FRGS. -------------------------------------------------------------- The web version of the programme < http://www.maphistory.info/warburgprog.html > can be bookmarked, as it will always contain the current details. For a comprehensive list of talks and meetings in the history of cartography, see John Docktor's 'Calendar' < http://home.earthlink.net/~docktor/index.htm > -------------------------------------------------------------- Tony Campbell -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.6.6 - Release Date: 08/06/2005 _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: "tony campbell" To: "*MapHist" , "*Lismaps" Subject: [MapHist] CORRECTION. 'Maps and Society' programme Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 18:18:46 +0100 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.578 required=6.3 tests=[AWL=0.021, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Level: *** [with apologies - what follows is a revised version - the January talk was omitted by mistake] *** [posted to lismaps and MapHist] ************************* 'MAPS AND SOCIETY' The Warburg Institute Fifteenth Series: 2005-2006 ************************* Lectures in the history of cartography convened by Catherine Delano Smith (Institute of Historical Research) and Tony Campbell (formerly Map Library, British Library). Meetings are held on selected Thursdays at The Warburg Institute, University of London,Woburn Square, London WC1H OAB at 5.00 pm. Admission is free. Meetings are followed by refreshments. All are most welcome. Enquiries: +44 (0) 20 8346 5112 (Dr Delano Smith) or < t.campbell@ockendon.clara.co.uk >. 2005 ------ November 3. Dr Jacinta Prunty (Department of Modern History, National University of Ireland, Maynooth / Research Fellow, Irish Research Council for the Humanities and Social Sciences), The Military Imperative for Town Mapping: Galway City, Ireland, 1580s to 1740s. November 17. Dr Sonja Brentjes (Associate Professor, Aga Khan Institute, London), 'A Contextual Interpretation of the World Map by Iskandar-Sultan (d. 1414) in the Topkapi Saray, Istanbul'. 2006 ----- January 19. Dr Alessandro Scafi (Facoltà di Conservazione dei Beni Culturali, University of Bologna, Italy); Professor Dan Terkla (Department of English, Illinois Wesley College, U.S.A.); Dominic Harbour (Head of Communications, Hereford Cathedral, Hereford, U.K.) Medieval and Modern: the Hereford Mappa Mundi (c.1290) on Display. MEETING SPONSORED BY THE HAKLUYT SOCIETY February 16. Emeritus Professor Bruce Lenman (Department of History, University of St Andrews) Cartographic Intelligence and the French Navy in the Caribbean, c.1679-1711. March 9. Ashley Baynton Williams (Editor, Map Forum) Coaxing the Buyer: Financing and Marketing Broadsheet Maps in 17th and 18th Century Britain. April 6. Veronica Della Dora (Post-doctoral Fellow, Getty Research Institute, Los Angeles, U.S.A.) Mapping Mount Athos: Renaissance and Enlightenment Visions. 'The Map in Book History' May 4. Anne Bush (University of Hawaii at Manoa / University of Oxford) Inscribing the City: Visual Itineraries in Nineteenth-Century Guidebooks to Rome. May 25. Dr Camille Serchuk (Department of Art History, Southern Connecticut State University, U.S.A) Picturing France in the Fifteenth Century: a New (Old) Map. -------------------------------------------------------------- This programme has been made possible through the generous sponsorship of The International Map Collectors' Society, Jonathan Potter of Jonathan Potter Ltd., and Laurence Worms of Ash Rare Books. Each lecture is accompanied by a display, at the Royal Geographical Society, Kensington, arranged by Francis Herbert, Hon FRGS. -------------------------------------------------------------- The web version of the programme < http://www.maphistory.info/warburgprog.html > can be bookmarked, as it will always contain the current details. For a comprehensive list of talks and meetings in the history of cartography, see John Docktor's 'Calendar' < http://home.earthlink.net/~docktor/index.htm > -------------------------------------------------------------- Tony Campbell -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.6.6 - Release Date: 08/06/2005 _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2005 11:39:54 -0600 From: Far West Maps & Books User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: Re: [MapHist] US county atlases X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0523-5, 06/09/2005), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.491 required=6.3 tests=[AWL=0.108, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Level: Pam, I am writing to let you know that I would like to reserve space for myself and Kim for the reception on 9/20/05 in Denver. We are looking forward to seeing you at the fair and IMCoS. I will have more exhibitor info for you soon. Myron West > > _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2005 15:23:44 -0700 From: Deborah Taylor-Pearce User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.5) Gecko/20041217 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: Re: [MapHist] early maps of land use and land cover X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.435 required=6.3 tests=[AWL=0.164, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Level: Fred, > I am looking for references to early > maps focusing on the theme of land > cover and land use -- i.e. classifying > natural vegetation (forest, shrubs, > etc.) and classifying human uses of > land (urban, cultivated, etc.) I've been working on this very issue, in relation to the Ferrar map of Virginia (1651, 1653), for a couple of years now. The whole project's proven a lot more complicated than I initially thought ... which is why I have yet to finish and post my gallery exhibit on the subject. In addition to the Ferrar map, I'm going to be discussing 2 (very detailed) land use charts drawn up by the C17 public policy analyst and intelligencer, Samuel Hartlib, both of which were published in his _A discoverie for division or setting out of land, as to the best form. Published by Samuel Hartlib esquire, for direction and more advantage and profit of the adventurers and planters in the fens and other waste and undisposed places in England and Ireland. Whereunto are added some other choice secrets of experiments of husbandry. With a philosophical quere concerning the cause of fruitfulness. And an essay to shew how all lands may be improved in a new way to become the ground of the increase of trading and revenue to this common- wealth_. London: Printed for Richard Wodenothe ..., 1653. The Ferrar map is a really nice example of early-modern bioregional cartography, which plots flora and fauna onto the usual geographical features. What most interests me is how this early style of mapping seems to be enjoying something of a revival now among local activists and others experimenting with new methods of identifying and describing bioregions and ecoregional boundaries. A number of such creative mapping practices are documented in Doug Aberley's _Boundaries of Home: Mapping for Local Empowerment_, including the map produced by Kirkpatrick Sale's 1992 class at Schumacher College, "... an innovative and experimental school that had been established in southwest England to examine and teach the ideas that had been propounded so ably by the author of _Small Is Beautiful_ in the 1970s.... "Schumacher College is located in Dartington, near the little town of Totnes, on the banks of the River Dart which runs from the hills of Dartmoor in western Devon down to, obviously, Dartmouth on the shore of the English Channel. As soon as I got there, I asked for geological survey maps of the area, at several scales, and right away it became apparent that the easiest, and probably most accurate, way to establish the bioregion was the watershed of the Dart, an area about 40 miles long and from 10 to 20 miles wide. I explained to the class -- a dozen paying students, from all parts of England, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, and India, plus a floating number of college staff members -- that our task was to fill in the map of the Dart watershed, or 'Dartia' as we named it, with as much information as we could get. "And so every afternoon was devoted to amassing as much as we could learn about Dartia from libraries, government offices, local experts, and the like: native flora and fauna, climate, soil types, hydrology, geology, and resources, on the one hand -- that is, what was naturally there -- and land use, agriculture, settlements, building types, manufacturing, fishing, and resource use, on the other -- that is, how humans dealt with what was there. We also went on as many field trips as our meager budgets allowed ... We also invited in several local experts, including the public information officer from the Dartmoor National Park, the head of planning of the local district council, the head of the local Totnes museum, and a local historian and former Totnes mayor." In the end, Sale's class came up with a series of maps which they published in booklet form, complete with a cover illustration of their totem for the region, Dartia the Otter (a standing otter and "a beloved animal special to the area," whose upright shape just happened to resemble the outline of Dartia). I have more quotes from Aberley's book in the gallery exhibit I just posted on the sea-charts of the Marshall Islanders: if you're interested, although I must warn everyone that there are problems at the moment with the page if you use (as I do) the Mozilla/Firefox browser. If you use the IE browser, the page loads just fine. (I've since fixed the file, but haven't posted the fix yet since we're still in the throes of troubleshooting, and I need to leave the file with errors up a bit longer until this process is completed.) ... And one more historical example for you, which I ran across while working on the Velasco map -- in Cohen and Augustyn's _Manhattan in Maps, 1527-1995_. Their book has a Foreword by Tony Hiss that explicitly frames their project in pretty much these terms (land use), with the fascinating British Headquarters Map of Manhattan, drawn ca. 1782, offered as "New York's first great turning point." From Hiss' Foreword: "In 1783, at the conclusion of the American Revolution, British troops, who had occupied New York throughout the war, evacuated the city, leaving in their wake appalling scenes of destruction--a quarter of the city had burned, including most of its landmarks, such as the charming, gabled, century-old red-brick Dutch houses that had survived from early New Amsterdam. Most of Manhattan's extensive woods had been leveled for firewood and to build forts and stockades. But the most devastating part of the British pullout, an act hidden from view until the publication of _Manhattan in Maps_, was that the soldiers took with them their crowning achievement--an enormous, three-square-yard map of Manhattan Island that compellingly presented the case, two hundred years before such concepts became commonplace, for respecting and celebrating the watersheds and ecosystems of the twelve-mile island as the city pushed northward from its original settlement near the Battery. "This 1782 map, the British Headquarters Map (see p. 84), painstakingly delineates, as the commentary to the map indicates, 'every stream, pond, swamp, marsh, elevation, and contour of shoreline' that then existed on Manhattan. Because the map was designed as a practical exercise to help British commanders decide which spots to fortify and where to deploy their forces, the landscape is visualized as a key British ally. They needed to know which hills were tall enough and which streams and marshes were wide enough to slow down any invading American forces, as well as which valleys might be deep enough to trap them. Accordingly, the original rolling, water-threaded topography of the island becomes the central feature of this huge image. Every hillside is colored with such intense dark shading and every brook is so brightly blue that the entire map takes on a very three-dimensional, bumpy, and quite drenched look. "The Headquarters Map, which has languished in London ever since American independence--stashed first at the War Office and transferred more recently to the care of the Public Records Office--has never appeared previously in any book. So the city has had to grow. without it--a ludicrous situation, as if the only maps of the beauties and intricacies of Yellowstone and Yosemite were locked in a drawer somewhere in Calcutta. Because the gigantic Headquarters Map does not hang in a place of honor in the City Hall rotunda, supplemented by smaller wall map copies in every New York public office and classroom, New York is no longer a spectacular setting of hills and kills--'kills' being the original Dutch name for the area's many tidally influenced streams. Instead, under the notorious waffle-iron influence of a second map, the 1811 Commissioners' Plan (see p. 100), Manhattan was squashed, flattened, dried, degreened, and gridded with right-angle streets and avenues; landfill killed every hill and kill. "In this two-dimensional vision of the city, every marsh and stream was a receptacle waiting to be smothered by a displaced hilltop. New York was placed in the artificial position of creating an economy and a society that had almost no connection to its underlying environment--and at the turn of the last century this concept was exported almost as successfully into the Bronx, Brooklyn, Queens, and Staten Island, and the counties in New York State and New Jersey just beyond the city limits (see The Risse Map, p. 144). The 1811 Manhattan vision held together for well over a century only because of a bold, mid-nineteenth-century after-thought--Central Park (see p. 130)--which reclaimed for greenery a piece of Manhattan big enough to be claimed as common ground by the entire New York community. "But now another century dawns. And what is New York, which for so long was so proud to call itself 'the city of the twentieth century,' to do next? Words and pictures can help craft a new vision of a city where economy, society, and environment support each other...." Hiss believes this new vision is embodied in the Metropolitan Greensward Summary Map of 1995, a reproduction of which illustrates his Foreword. Deborah _____ Deborah Taylor-Pearce dtp@she-philosopher.com _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: Dyallen2@aol.com Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 19:52:25 EDT Subject: [MapHist] Article on Mapping in Encyclopedia of New York State To: maphist@geog.uu.nl, Maps-l@listserv.uga.edu X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5200 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.887 required=6.3 tests=[AWL=0.631, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_40_50=0.035, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.039, NO_REAL_NAME=0.007, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Level:
Those of you who are interested in New York State maps might want to know about my article on "Cartography and Mapping" that has just been published in The Encyclopedia of New York State (Syracuse University Press).  The article covers the entire history of the mapping of New York State from the sixteenth century to the present.  It is (I think) about 3500 words long, so it is fairly comprehensive for an encyclopedia article.  Might be of interest to beginning librarians, students, and researchers who are new to the subject.
 
David Allen
La Mesa, CA
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.4 Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 09:07:03 -0400 From: "Pam van Ee" To: Subject: Re: [MapHist] US county atlases X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.599 required=6.3 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Level: Dear Myron and Kim--I am delighted that you will be able to attend. I am really looking forward to seeing you and hope all is well. Pam P.S. The subject line says US county atlases. If you have any, we are always interested. Pam >>> farwesttc@sisna.com 06/09/05 1:39 PM >>> Pam, I am writing to let you know that I would like to reserve space for myself and Kim for the reception on 9/20/05 in Denver. We are looking forward to seeing you at the fair and IMCoS. I will have more exhibitor info for you soon. Myron West > > _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: "Alan & Elaine Rogers" To: Subject: Re: [MapHist] Mapping the East Coast of Australia Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2005 09:18:34 +1000 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-TPG-Antivirus: Passed X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.253 required=6.3 tests=[AWL=0.311, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_40_50=0.035, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Level:
Dear David, In a search for a sea captain off the east coast of Australia before 1547 I viewed some old maps which could give some answers to Guillaume G Brouscon.
On one image of a projection off the west coast of South America which had a likeness of west Australia coast. On another in the Terra incognito area an image of Cape York, northern Australia.
A flood of  part maps of the South land were leaking out at this time, the map maker for want of better knowledge, was fitting the maps in what the thought was a likely area which brings us to the Dieppe maps and others.
Regards Alan
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2005 1:57 AM
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Mapping the East Coast of Australia

    I often find these discussions of specialized topics quite interesting, even though they are "out of my area" and I have nothing to contribute.  I vote for sending messages like these to the list.  They are easy enough to delete if the subject gets too boring.
 
    Well, actually in this case I did find something to contribute.  There is a manuscript map of the Americas by Guillaume G. Brouscon (1543) that extends South America to the east and seems to conflate it with Australia.  It makes South America have almost the same shape as Australia on modern maps.  Strange stuff.  It is reproduced as Plate XXV in Portinaro and Knirsch, The Cartography of North America.  Any thoughts about how this map came to be?
 
    By the way, I bought this beautiful book for only $4.95 on one of the big used book Web sites.  It has many wonderful color reproductions of manuscript maps that are not easily available elsewhere.  There are real bargains in gently aged coffee table type map books to be found at sites like Alibris and Abe Books.
 
David Allen
La Mesa, CA
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: "C.Delano-Smith" To: "Maphist" Cc: Subject: [MapHist] Fw: Queen's Birthday Honours, 11 June 2005 Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2005 11:14:06 +0100 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-Sender-Host-Address: 81.152.128.75 X-QM-Scan-Virus: virusscan says the message is clean X-QM-Scan-Virus: ClamAV says the message is clean X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.348 required=6.3 tests=[AWL=0.244, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.007] X-Spam-Level: MapHistors abroad, or those who are not avid perusers of the Queen's Honours List, will have missed the following entry, published in The Times newspaper (annd online version of The Independent) yesterday under the heading CBE (Commander of the British Empire): "Kain, Prof Roger James Peter, Prof of Geography, Univ of Exeter. For services to Scholarship" The CBE, by the way, is the highest of the three 'grades' (CBE /OBE /MBE). I am sure you are all as delighted as we are, both for Roger personally, and for the scholarship he represents ---which includes in very large measure the history of cartography. Catherine (co-author with Roger of, amongst other things, *English Maps. A History* (1999) _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.4 Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 07:15:33 -0400 From: "Pam van Ee" To: Subject: Re: [MapHist] US county atlases X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.599 required=6.3 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Level: Myron--I received your phone call this morning. This e-Mail came right on through. Please try me again--Pam >>> pvanee@loc.gov 06/10/05 9:07 AM >>> Dear Myron and Kim--I am delighted that you will be able to attend. I am really looking forward to seeing you and hope all is well. Pam P.S. The subject line says US county atlases. If you have any, we are always interested. Pam >>> farwesttc@sisna.com 06/09/05 1:39 PM >>> Pam, I am writing to let you know that I would like to reserve space for myself and Kim for the reception on 9/20/05 in Denver. We are looking forward to seeing you at the fair and IMCoS. I will have more exhibitor info for you soon. Myron West > > _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.4 Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 07:28:57 -0400 From: "Pam van Ee" To: Subject: Re: [MapHist] US county atlases X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.599 required=6.3 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Level: I am so sorry to have responded to the whole list. Please forgive my mistake. Pam >>> pvanee@loc.gov 06/13/05 7:15 AM >>> Myron--I received your phone call this morning. This e-Mail came right on through. Please try me again--Pam >>> pvanee@loc.gov 06/10/05 9:07 AM >>> Dear Myron and Kim--I am delighted that you will be able to attend. I am really looking forward to seeing you and hope all is well. Pam P.S. The subject line says US county atlases. If you have any, we are always interested. Pam >>> farwesttc@sisna.com 06/09/05 1:39 PM >>> Pam, I am writing to let you know that I would like to reserve space for myself and Kim for the reception on 9/20/05 in Denver. We are looking forward to seeing you at the fair and IMCoS. I will have more exhibitor info for you soon. Myron West > > _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Authentication-Info: The sender was authenticated as ovidiu using PLAIN at smtp.nada.kth.se Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 13:57:05 +0200 From: Ovidiu Sandor User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: [MapHist] Info on Baillieul X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.275 required=6.3 tests=[AWL=0.324, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Level: I am looking for information about a French cartographer/publisher by the name Gaspard Baillieul. Please let me know if any of you is aware of any book/study on his cartographic output. My interest is for the period around 1716-1720. Many thanks, Ovidiu Sandor _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Sender: maphist15@mail.maphist.nl X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.2.0 Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 17:22:38 +0200 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl (by way of List-owner MapHist ) Subject: [MapHist] Surveyors of the British Atlantic X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.322 required=6.3 tests=[AWL=0.277, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Level: Non-member submission from [Jeffers Lennox ] Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2005 17:56:10 -0300 Hello all (long time reader, second time poster), I'm wondering if anyone could direct me to information that deals with the influence (political or otherwise) of surveyors in British America. In my research I have come across one family 'dynasty' of surveyors that also held influential positions in colonial politics/law, and I'm wondering if there were others in the 13 colonies/Nova Scotia/Newfoundland. So far I have come across nothing. There seems to be a good deal of literature on the influence of cartographers and their maps, but I'm looking at a smaller scale, such as townships or states/provinces. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks, Jeffers Lennox Dalhousie University MA Candidate jeffers.lennox@dal.ca _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.4 Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 11:38:12 -0400 From: "Edward James Redmond" To: Subject: Re: [MapHist] Surveyors of the British Atlantic X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.599 required=6.3 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Level: An excellent source, though limited to Virginia, is Sarah Hughes, Surveyors and Statesmen. (The bib record below does not list an ISBN) ----- Main Title: Surveyors and statesmen : land measuring in colonial Virginia / Sarah S. Hughes. Published/Created: Richmond, Va. : Virginia Surveyors Foundation : Virginia Association of Surveyors, c1979. Description: x, 196 p. : ill. ; 32 cm. Notes: Includes bibliographical references and index. Subjects: Surveying--Virginia--History. LC Classification: TA522.V8 H83 Dewey Class No.: 526.9/2/09755 19 Geog. Area Code: n-us-va LC CALL NUMBER: TA522.V8 H83 ------- Ed Redmond Geography & Map Reference Specialist Geography and Map Division Library of Congress 101 Independence Ave, SE Washington, DC 20540-4650 (202) 707-8548 ered@loc.gov >>> owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl 06/13/05 11:22 AM >>> Non-member submission from [Jeffers Lennox ] Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2005 17:56:10 -0300 Hello all (long time reader, second time poster), I'm wondering if anyone could direct me to information that deals with the influence (political or otherwise) of surveyors in British America. In my research I have come across one family 'dynasty' of surveyors that also held influential positions in colonial politics/law, and I'm wondering if there were others in the 13 colonies/Nova Scotia/Newfoundland. So far I have come across nothing. There seems to be a good deal of literature on the influence of cartographers and their maps, but I'm looking at a smaller scale, such as townships or states/provinces. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks, Jeffers Lennox Dalhousie University MA Candidate jeffers.lennox@dal.ca _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 11:42:44 -0400 From: "W. Frederick Zimmerman, ISciences LLC" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: Re: [MapHist] Surveyors of the British Atlantic X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.866 required=6.3 tests=[AWL=0.325, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_HELO_SOFTFAIL=3.14] X-Spam-Level: You might consider the history of transatlantic cabling as a sort of historical epilogue to this trend. There have been a number of good studies of the political and technical history of the cable companies. Edward James Redmond wrote: >An excellent source, though limited to Virginia, is >Sarah Hughes, Surveyors and Statesmen. (The bib record below does not list an ISBN) > >----- >Main Title: Surveyors and statesmen : land measuring in colonial Virginia / Sarah S. Hughes. >Published/Created: Richmond, Va. : Virginia Surveyors Foundation : Virginia Association of Surveyors, c1979. >Description: x, 196 p. : ill. ; 32 cm. >Notes: Includes bibliographical references and index. >Subjects: Surveying--Virginia--History. >LC Classification: TA522.V8 H83 >Dewey Class No.: 526.9/2/09755 19 >Geog. Area Code: n-us-va >LC CALL NUMBER: TA522.V8 H83 >------- > >Ed Redmond >Geography & Map Reference Specialist >Geography and Map Division >Library of Congress >101 Independence Ave, SE >Washington, DC 20540-4650 >(202) 707-8548 >ered@loc.gov > > > >>>>owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl 06/13/05 11:22 AM >>> >>>> >>>> >Non-member submission from [Jeffers Lennox ] > >Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2005 17:56:10 -0300 > >Hello all (long time reader, second time poster), > >I'm wondering if anyone could direct me to information that deals with >the influence (political or otherwise) of surveyors in British America. >In my research I have come across one family 'dynasty' of surveyors that >also held influential positions in colonial politics/law, and I'm >wondering if there were others in the 13 colonies/Nova >Scotia/Newfoundland. So far I have come across nothing. There seems to >be a good deal of literature on the influence of cartographers and their >maps, but I'm looking at a smaller scale, such as townships or >states/provinces. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. > >Many thanks, > >Jeffers Lennox >Dalhousie University >MA Candidate >jeffers.lennox@dal.ca > >_______________________________________________________________ >MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography >hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. >The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of >the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of >Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for >the views of the author. >List Information: http://www.maphist.info > >_______________________________________________________________ >MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography >hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. >The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of >the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of >Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for >the views of the author. >List Information: http://www.maphist.info > > > > > -- W. Frederick Zimmerman Research Scientist ISciences, LLC 300 N. Fifth Ave #120 Ann Arbor, MI, USA 48104 wfz@isciences.com _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 12:36:19 -0400 From: Joel Kovarsky User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: Re: [MapHist] Surveyors of the British Atlantic X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.508 required=6.3 tests=[AWL=1.093, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Level: A couple of suggestions, which might help a bit: 1. Linklater's book,_Measuring America_ 2. Contact the people at the South Atlantic Humanities Center , as they may have some suggestions. Joel Kovarsky _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: "Paul Hughes" To: Subject: RE: [MapHist] Surveyors of the British Atlantic Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 19:57:19 +0100 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.592 required=6.3 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.007] X-Spam-Level: Joseph Foss Dessiou (1769-1859), his father, and his son, charted much of America, particularly Newfoundland. He also married his English wife in St. John's. Paul Hughes -----Original Message----- From: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl [mailto:owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl] Sent: 13 June 2005 16:23 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: [MapHist] Surveyors of the British Atlantic Non-member submission from [Jeffers Lennox ] Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2005 17:56:10 -0300 Hello all (long time reader, second time poster), I'm wondering if anyone could direct me to information that deals with the influence (political or otherwise) of surveyors in British America. In my research I have come across one family 'dynasty' of surveyors that also held influential positions in colonial politics/law, and I'm wondering if there were others in the 13 colonies/Nova Scotia/Newfoundland. So far I have come across nothing. There seems to be a good deal of literature on the influence of cartographers and their maps, but I'm looking at a smaller scale, such as townships or states/provinces. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks, Jeffers Lennox Dalhousie University MA Candidate jeffers.lennox@dal.ca _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: "Rodney Shirley" To: Subject: [MapHist] Maps in the Atlases of the British Library c.800 - 1800 AD [MABL] Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 21:22:08 +0100 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.349 required=6.3 tests=[AWL=0.251, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Level: In answer to enquirers, the good news is that British Library Publications (BLP) advises that stock of the second impression of MABL will be available shortly--from 24 June. The less good news is that the top-up printing run is only 100 copies. I have said to BLP that, in my view, this is a singular under-estimate of world-wide demand, especially following an out-of-stock position only 4 months after initial publication in December 2004. However the decision is BLP's to make, not mine. ISBN 0 7123 4799 2. Two volumes (1984 pages) plus CD-ROM index. Cross-posted to maptrade. Rodney Shirley Author/compiler rodneyws@dial.pipex.com _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-ME-UUID: 20050614125102513.7D4791C001F5@mwinf0307.wanadoo.fr From: "Jason Hubbard" To: Subject: Re: [MapHist] Info on Baillieul Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 14:50:14 +0200 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.511 required=6.3 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_50_60=0.087, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] X-Spam-Level:
Dear Mr. Sandor:
    This is outside of the dates you mention, but there are at least two entries in Rodney Shirley's Maps in the Atlases of the British Library, the first, for Gaspard, under the reference: T. BAIL-1a., being an untitled collection of 30 town plans with some dated 1708 or 1709;  the second (for Bailleul le jeune, 1748, Lyon) is a French composite atlas COM-13a.
    Also, see: Bénézit, Emmanuel-Charles  Dictionnaire critique et documentaire des Peintres, Sculpteurs, Dessinateurs et Graveurs. . ., where Gaspard de Bailleul is mentioned in passing as being the father of François Bailleul, engraver working in Paris in the 18th century.  Similar information (on François) in  Thieme/Becker Allgemeines Lexikon der Bildenden Kuenstler. . .
François Bailleul signed at least one engraving (Mozambique, in volume I) in the first volume of Prevost's Histoire Générale Des Voyages. . . 1746-1789. 
 
    Jason Hubbard
 
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ovidiu Sandor" <ovidiu@modatim.ro>
Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 1:57 PM
Subject: [MapHist] Info on Baillieul

>
> I am looking for information about a French cartographer/publisher by
> the name Gaspard Baillieul. Please let me know if any of you is aware of
> any book/study on his cartographic output. My interest is for the period
> around 1716-1720.
>
> Many thanks,
>   Ovidiu Sandor
>
> _______________________________________________________________
> MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography
> hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
> The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of
> the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of
> Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for
> the views of the author.
> List Information:
http://www.maphist.info
>
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: [MapHist] New (2005) book on Antarctic shelf ice extent using historical maps & GIS Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 17:48:18 +0100 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: New (2005) book on Antarctic shelf ice extent using historical maps & GIS Thread-Index: AcVxAN4qfwlrEv62TDWwVWt6lXYnXg== From: "Francis Herbert" To: Cc: "A forum for issues related to map & spatial data librarianship" , X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.426 required=6.3 tests=[AWL=0.080, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_TEXT_AFTER_BODY=0.061, HTML_TEXT_AFTER_HTML=0.031] X-Spam-Level:

Even if it may be a contradiction in terms, this monograph on shelf ice is ‘hot off the press’!  And, as it may be of trilateral interest - history of cartography/Polar studies/GIS - to three internet discussion lists to which I subscribe, I am sending the information to all of them.  Feel free to ask more details of me (e.g. which libraries in Argentina, Great Britain, Norway, and in USA were used for maps and charts).  It has some relevance for the ‘global warming’ question, of course. 

 

Changes in shelf ice extent in West Antarctica between 1840 and 1960 : analysing historical maps in a Geographical Information System : proefschrift ter verkrijging van het doctoraat in de Letteren aan de Rijksuniversiteit Groningen . . . in het openbaar te verdegigen op donderdag 9 juni 2005 . . . / door Nanka Karstkarel. - Groningen : Rijksuniversiteit Groningen, 2005. - x,170p. : ill. (including col. ill. on fornt cover), maps, fig. ; 24 cm. - (Circumpolar Studies, ISSN 1574-0374 ; vol. 3). - Bibliogr.: p.155-162. - Summ. in Nl: p.147-153. - Exemplified by case-studies of the Larsen, Ronne-Filchner, & the Ross ice-shleves. - Includes chapter 4 ‘The cartography of Antarctica in relation to the history of discovery’ (p.53-67). - Includes ‘Appendix A : Overview of Antarctic expeditions in the period 1770-1950, except for expedtions by Norway, England and the United States (using  . . . list . . . drawn up by Headland, 1989)’: p.163-167. - ISBN 90-77922-04-0

Francis Herbert (Curator of Maps, RGS-IBG)

f.herbert@rgs.org

http://www.rgs.org [see ‘Collections’ – including some online catalogues (e.g., map up to ca 1940)]

 

X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 15:06:15 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: "John W. Docktor" To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: Re: [MapHist] Surveyors of the British Atlantic X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.599 required=6.3 tests=[AWL=0.001, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Level: I'm wondering if anyone could direct me to information that deals with the influence (political or otherwise) of surveyors in British America. ----------- I am away from home, and do not have access to my reference material. However, look at Nicolas and William Scull from Pennsylvania. In addition to being surveyors, they did hold political office in colonial Pennsylvania. See the article in the Portolan (vol 33), the Journal of the Washington Map Society (www.portolan.washmap.org) ------------------------------------- John W. Docktor Phone: 717-846-8997 Fax: 717-845-9337 Cartography - Calendars of Events & Exhibitions: http://www.docktor.com/ Washington Map Society: http://www.washmap.org/ _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: "Gowrie Galleries" To: "MapHist" Subject: [MapHist] Carey's A New and Accurate map of New South Wales... Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 16:05:21 +1000 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.456 required=6.3 tests=[AWL=0.142, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] X-Spam-Level:
Would anyone be able to tell me if Carey's map of New South Wales appeared in 'The General Atlas for Carey's edition of Guthrie's Geography', 1795 edition. If not, which edition of Carey's atlas did it first appear in?
 
Thank you kindly,
 
Simon Dewez
maps@sydney.net
Gowrie Galleries
316 Oxford Street
Woollahra  2025  NSW
Australia
ph: (61 2) 9387 4581
fax: (61 2) 9389 0640
www.gowrie-galleries.com.au
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: "Marcel van den Broecke" To: Subject: [MapHist] Fourth Ortelius copperplate of the Americas found Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2005 13:55:01 +0200 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.381 required=6.3 tests=[AWL=0.218, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Level: A fourth Ortelius America copperplate has been found. I was recently approached by someone from Paris who said that he owned the copperplate of the third Ortelius map of the Americas, the only one without the bulge in the west coast of South America. I went to Paris and examined and photographed a print made in an art shop from this plate, and compared it with my own copies of this map (my number Ort11). It turned out to be extremely similar to the standard third Americas map, first state (Ort11.1), but in the longitude scale numbers along the bottom of the map, instead of the standard 260 270 280 it had 260 70 280. Whether Ort11 is a copy of this plate, or whether this plate is a copy of Ort11 is unclear, but the resemblance between this map and the standard map is so close that it is very unlikely to have been made by anyone but Ortelius. I would be very interested to know if anyone who has access to original copies of this map can find a similar "mistake", i.e. 70 instead of 270 in the bottom longitude scale, in which case the copperplate just found was actually used in Ortelius' time. For a picture of this map see http://orteliusmaps.com/americas-paris/ which also has a more elaborate text than I can give here. When you click on the (jpg) image, you access a 23MB TIFF file of the map which allows very high magnification. Marcel van den Broecke Cartographica Neerlandica tel. +31 30 2202 396 fax +31 30 2203 326 e-mail: info@orteliusmaps.com URL www.orteliusmaps.com _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Sender: maphist15@mail.maphist.nl X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.2.0 Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2005 13:42:24 +0200 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: List-owner MapHist Subject: [MapHist] EU Call for Proposals X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.578 required=6.3 tests=[AWL=-0.018, BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.039] X-Spam-Level: This was sent a few days ago (1) from a non-subscribed e-mail address, (2) to a wrong address and (3) html-encoded. Three reasons why it was not distributed automatically. Peter Dear List-Members, A call for proposal which might be of interest to those based in the EU. eContentplus programme On 9 March 2005 the European Parliament and the Council approved the eContentplus Programme, a multiannual Community programme to make digital content in Europe more accessible, usable and exploitable. The 4-year programme (2005–08), proposed by the European Commission, will have a budget of € 149 million to tackle organisational barriers and promote take up of leading-edge technical solutions to improve accessibility and usability of digital material in a multilingual environment. The Programme addresses specific market areas where development has been slow: geographic content (as a key constituent of public sector content), educational content, cultural, scientific and scholarly content. The Programme also supports EU-wide co-ordination of collections in libraries, museums and archives and the preservation of digital collections so as to ensure availability of cultural, scholarly and scientific assets for future use. Programme calendar - ahead of us - Information Day 15th June 2005 - Call for proposals - Summer 2005 - - Call for proposals closing date - End October 2005 - - Start of projects - Spring 2006 - http://europa.eu.int/information_society/activities/econtentplus/programme/index_en.htm Boudewijn Meijer _________________________________________ Andropov Antique Maps & Prints Haansberg 19 4874 NJ Etten-Leur the Netherlands t. +31-76-5032797 f. +31-76-5032540 w. www.andropov.com _________________________________________ DISCLAMER The information in this message is confidentail and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the adressee. Access to this message by anyone else is unauthorized. If you are not the intented recipient, any disclosure, copying or distribution of the message, or any action or omission taken by you in reliave on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. Please immediately contact the sender or the postmaster if you have recieved this message in error. VOORWAARDEN De informatie in dit bericht is vertrouwelijk en persoonlijk. Het is alleen bestemd voor de geadresseerde. Als u niet de bedoelde ontvanger bent is inzage, kopieren, verspreiden, misbruik en dergelijke akties in welke vorm dan ook illegaal en derhalve verboden. Indien u per abuis de ontvanger van dit bericht bent neem dan direkt kontakt op met de afzender of met de postmaster. _________________________________________ Peter van der Krogt List-owner MapHist List-info: http://www.maphist.nl _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: RE: [MapHist] Fourth Ortelius copperplate of the Americas found Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 10:01:35 +1000 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [MapHist] Fourth Ortelius copperplate of the Americas found Thread-Index: AcVz/LppJJuADK35QHCoxJh/zxIG0gBK1f9Q From: "Maura O'Connor" To: X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.586 required=6.3 tests=[AWL=0.013, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Level: Dear Marcel I have just checked the two editions we hold of this map, that have already been scanned, and found the following: 1. 3rd state, 1587 (our copy : MAP RM 2099) - longitude sequence correct, ie 260,270, 280 2. ?ist state, 1570 - with bulge (our copy : MAP NK 1527) - longitude sequence as per your example, ie 260, 70, 280. I have yet to check our atlas copy, but can do so if you wish. To access our images, go to the Library's homepage : www.nla.gov.au 2. Click on Catalogue. In the find box, type "Ortelius", from the "in " box, select "author" and in the "Limit to" box, select "Maps". 3. From the list, select the item you want by clicking on the short title catalogue record. 4. From the record, click on the thumbprint image, then in the View image screen clcik on the Interactive map button and from the size box, select the 1200 x 1200 size. You have now decompressed the image. (Our rare map scans are compressed using MrSID). 5. You can now zoom in to read the detials. Use the orange arrows to pan around the vieiwng area. I will leave you to sort out what is going on. Have fun! Yours sincerely Maura O'Connor Map Curator National Library of Australia Canberra ACT 2600 Phone : 61 2 6262 1280 Fax: 61 2 6161 1653 Email : moconnor@nla.gov.au -----Original Message----- From: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl [mailto:owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl] On Behalf Of Marcel van den Broecke Sent: Saturday, 18 June 2005 9:55 PM To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: [MapHist] Fourth Ortelius copperplate of the Americas found A fourth Ortelius America copperplate has been found. I was recently approached by someone from Paris who said that he owned the copperplate of the third Ortelius map of the Americas, the only one without the bulge in the west coast of South America. I went to Paris and examined and photographed a print made in an art shop from this plate, and compared it with my own copies of this map (my number Ort11). It turned out to be extremely similar to the standard third Americas map, first state (Ort11.1), but in the longitude scale numbers along the bottom of the map, instead of the standard 260 270 280 it had 260 70 280. Whether Ort11 is a copy of this plate, or whether this plate is a copy of Ort11 is unclear, but the resemblance between this map and the standard map is so close that it is very unlikely to have been made by anyone but Ortelius. I would be very interested to know if anyone who has access to original copies of this map can find a similar "mistake", i.e. 70 instead of 270 in the bottom longitude scale, in which case the copperplate just found was actually used in Ortelius' time. For a picture of this map see http://orteliusmaps.com/americas-paris/ which also has a more elaborate text than I can give here. When you click on the (jpg) image, you access a 23MB TIFF file of the map which allows very high magnification. Marcel van den Broecke Cartographica Neerlandica tel. +31 30 2202 396 fax +31 30 2203 326 e-mail: info@orteliusmaps.com URL www.orteliusmaps.com _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: "Marcel van den Broecke" To: Subject: [MapHist] Fourth Ortelius Americas plate ever used? Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 10:20:24 +0200 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.415 required=6.3 tests=[AWL=0.184, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Level: Dear Marcel I have just checked the two editions we hold of this map, that have already been scanned, and found the following: 1. 3rd state, 1587 (our copy : MAP RM 2099) - longitude sequence correct, ie 260,270, 280 2. ?ist state, 1570 - with bulge (our copy : MAP NK 1527) - longitude sequence as per your example, ie 260, 70, 280. I have yet to check our atlas copy, but can do so if you wish..... ================================================== Dear Maura, Thank you for responding to my query. Your finding does not solve my puzzle, it complicates it: Your copy of the third Americas plate (RM2099) has the regular, i.e. correct 260-270-280 longitudes, which means it has not been printed from the Paris plate. Your copy of the first plate (NK 1527), from the 1570 Latin edition as you call it, has been mislabelled and is in fact the second Americas plate (my Ort10), which was used between 1579 and 1588. It is different from the first plate (Ort10) in that the sails of the ship middle left has sails bulging towards the viewer, whereas in the second plate (Ort11) the sails bulge away from the viewer. Your copy must have been printed from a proof state of plate Ort10 since my copy of this plate from the 1579 Latin edition has the regular 260-270-280, so the 70 was soo corrected to 270. If your copy has text on the back, it should meet the following requirements: second line begins "Orbis hodie", 13th line from the bottom: ria rerum Atlanticarum. This means that the missing 2 in the Paris plate (which further very closely resembles the third Americas plate without the bulge on the South American west coast) just found, has a precursor in the proof state of the second Americas plate you have, and this mistake seems to have been copied on the Paris plate. Your data have not yet answered my question: have any copies been printed of the third Americas plate with 70 rather than 270 in the bottom longitude? The search goes on. Marcel van den Broecke Cartographica Neerlandica tel. +31 30 2202 396 fax +31 30 2203 326 e-mail: info@orteliusmaps.com URL www.orteliusmaps.com _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: "J. B. Post" To: Subject: [MapHist] Abstract/linear vs. holistic Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 08:09:01 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.184 required=6.3 tests=[AWL=0.379, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_40_50=0.035, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] X-Spam-Level:
   On another list I check regularly, there was mention of the writings of Leonard Shlain.  As I understand the summary on the list, Shlain contends writing is linear and linear abstract thinking leads to an ordered system which supports a patriarchial system.  Hey, this is just my summary of a summary.  Upon reading that, I immediately thought of maps which may be created in a linear process, attempt to represent a slice of spacetime in a "holistic" manner.  This is true of certain other graphics as well.  Yes, that repressentation of a slice of spacetime may be imaginary or terribly skewed, but in general I wouldn't call it linear.  Certainly abstract.  Even if linear, access to writing need not be.  With the codex format, once can drop into any page.  With a scroll format, one has to "fast forward" to the parts one wants.  I'm going to have to find out what Shlain actually says. 
 
                     JBP
 
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Sender: maphist15@mail.maphist.nl X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.2.0 Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 20:12:26 +0200 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl (by way of List-owner MapHist ) Subject: [MapHist] Pole hed X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.323 required=6.3 tests=[AWL=0.276, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Level: Not distributed automatically because of an illegal word. Peter From: "Paul Hughes" Subject: Pole hed Can anyone tell me what the present site of 'Pole hed' is? It appears on = a diagramatic mapping of the coasts of Brittany, and eastern and southern England, dated 1569.=20 The mapping includes 32 places between Berwick and St Matthew, most of which are headlands. Each place-name accompanies a small descriptive cartoon. = The cartoon for 'Pole hed' is the head of a man; he has a clipped goatee = beard and a smart moustache. One previous suggestion, of Harwich, has since = been discountenaced because of an analysis of tidal data. Paul Hughes. _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: "Tom Ikins" To: Subject: Re: [MapHist] Pole hed Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 17:37:23 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.453 required=6.3 tests=[AWL=0.147, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Level: June 20, 2005 Paul Hughes wrote: > Can anyone tell me what the present site of 'Pole hed' is? It appears on a diagramatic mapping of the coasts of Brittany, and eastern and southern England, dated 1569. Can you be a bit more specific as to what points (before and after if known) that Pole hed is between? Old English Pol (with long vowel) is 'a stream'. Middle English poll seems the same. Perhaps Pole is related to Cornish poll 'cove'. Tom Ikins http://www.RomanMap.com The Roman Map of Britain _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: RE: [MapHist] Fourth Ortelius Americas plate ever used? Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 14:02:25 +1000 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [MapHist] Fourth Ortelius Americas plate ever used? Thread-Index: AcV1cO9u4P5DY4IBRjGZ3f1O6M8OMgAoUllQ From: "Maura O'Connor" To: X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.589 required=6.3 tests=[AWL=0.010, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Level: Dear Marcel I am happy to accept correction if it is done in a constructive way. With regard to NKI527, it is part of one our oldest collections, the Nan Kivell collection, and was catalogued about 15 years ago by a staff member, no longer with us, who was neither experienced in cataloguing rare maps or understood the necessary care required, but also did not have the tools we have today. I have looked now at the original and found that there is a hole beside where the [2]70 appears on the map, so it may well be of the original plate and not from a precursor to the plate just found! Text on the verso is in Latin with the line text commencements you have given below. Plate is numbered 5 on the verso. I have now looked at our rare atlas copy, atlas in Latin and published 1601 which shows America with out the bulge, the latitudes in the correct numerical sequence, ie 270 and the ship sails pointing both ways to the viewer!. There is Latin text on the verso of the plate, which is numbered 5 on the verso. In my initial answer I was merely advising what we held in our collection. I wish you luck in tracking down any other printed examples from the plate you have recently observed. Yours sincerely Maura O'Connor Map Curator National Library of Australia Canberra ACT 2600 Australia Phone : +61 2 6262 1280 Fax: +61 2 6262 1653 Email : moconnor@nla.gov.au -----Original Message----- From: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl [mailto:owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl] On Behalf Of Marcel van den Broecke Sent: Monday, 20 June 2005 6:20 PM To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: [MapHist] Fourth Ortelius Americas plate ever used? Dear Marcel I have just checked the two editions we hold of this map, that have already been scanned, and found the following: 1. 3rd state, 1587 (our copy : MAP RM 2099) - longitude sequence correct, ie 260,270, 280 2. ?ist state, 1570 - with bulge (our copy : MAP NK 1527) - longitude sequence as per your example, ie 260, 70, 280. I have yet to check our atlas copy, but can do so if you wish..... ================================================== Dear Maura, Thank you for responding to my query. Your finding does not solve my puzzle, it complicates it: Your copy of the third Americas plate (RM2099) has the regular, i.e. correct 260-270-280 longitudes, which means it has not been printed from the Paris plate. Your copy of the first plate (NK 1527), from the 1570 Latin edition as you call it, has been mislabelled and is in fact the second Americas plate (my Ort10), which was used between 1579 and 1588. It is different from the first plate (Ort10) in that the sails of the ship middle left has sails bulging towards the viewer, whereas in the second plate (Ort11) the sails bulge away from the viewer. Your copy must have been printed from a proof state of plate Ort10 since my copy of this plate from the 1579 Latin edition has the regular 260-270-280, so the 70 was soo corrected to 270. If your copy has text on the back, it should meet the following requirements: second line begins "Orbis hodie", 13th line from the bottom: ria rerum Atlanticarum. This means that the missing 2 in the Paris plate (which further very closely resembles the third Americas plate without the bulge on the South American west coast) just found, has a precursor in the proof state of the second Americas plate you have, and this mistake seems to have been copied on the Paris plate. Your data have not yet answered my question: have any copies been printed of the third Americas plate with 70 rather than 270 in the bottom longitude? The search goes on. Marcel van den Broecke Cartographica Neerlandica tel. +31 30 2202 396 fax +31 30 2203 326 e-mail: info@orteliusmaps.com URL www.orteliusmaps.com _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 10:05:54 +0200 From: Dr.Zsolt =?iso-8859-2?Q?T=F6r=F6k?= Organization: Cartart FacTsimile Maps & Globes X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: [MapHist] ICHC 2005- a la carte! X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.49 required=6.3 tests=[AWL=0.110, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Level: Dear Participants and Guests! ICHC 2005 Organizers proudly announce the publication of the lunch menu card on the conference web page: http://lazarus.elte.hu/~zoltorok/ichc/lunch.html We has arranged convenient and inexpensive lunch in the air conditioned conference building, during lunch break we offer three menus (including a vegetarian one) for each day from Monday to Friday. Menus include appetizer/soup, main dish, dessert, refreshment/coffee. Note that lunch is NOT included in the registration fee. For the limited capacity of the cafeteria we strongly recommend seat reservation and advance order of tickets. More information on the simple procedure and order form is on the web. (Lunch tickets may be available at the Registration Desk.) During the lunch break we will serve pre-ordered lunches first, the cafeteria is reserved for those participants who have lunch tickets. Participants will be provided by a list of local restaurants as well, unfortunately, they are outside the campus area. Please, consider having lunch with colleagues and return the form in order to enable us to make preparations! Although not an academic achievement, we think lunch possibility is an important part of the conference. Best regards, Zsolt Török ICHC 2005 Co-ordinator PS: Final Programme coming soon! _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 13:56:04 -0700 From: Deborah Taylor-Pearce User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.5) Gecko/20041217 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: Re: [MapHist] Abstract/linear vs. holistic X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.442 required=6.3 tests=[AWL=0.157, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Level: JBP, > As I understand the summary on the > list, Shlain contends writing is linear > and linear abstract thinking leads to > an ordered system which supports a > patriarchial system. Back in 2001, we had a discussion about Shlain on another list I belong to ... to which I contributed one of my usual, prolix posts on the subject. ;-) Suffice it to say, Shlain's own arguments participate in the very linearity he critiques. Despite his historical approach, Shlain's primary argument is ahistorical, reliant as it is on the usual grand generalizations about gender and cognition (e.g., describing linear abstraction as a masculine trait, and holistic visualization as its feminine obverse). I wrote back in 2001, and will repeat now, that the historical experience does not support such an unchanging dualism across varying space-times. FWIW, the more standard feminist argument about visualization points to the increasing dominance of the visual over other embodied ways of knowing, and with this, its gradual reduction to yet another ahistorical generalization, "the male gaze." The "male gaze" (along with its companion "scientific gaze," and also, I suppose, the "cartographic gaze" ;-) is now accepted shorthand for describing the analytic reasoning of a disembodied, disengaged intellect ... hence, an objectifying, dominating gaze ... hence, pornographic at its core. Shlain himself is less suspicious of the postmodern ascendence of the visual than many feminist philosophers, e.g., arguing in his popular _The Alphabet Versus the Goddess: The Conflict Between Word and Image_ that "as visual orientation returns to prominence within society through film, television, and cyberspace, the status of women increases, soon to return to the equilibrium of the earliest human cultures." Nor is he alone in this. Other feminist scholars (such as Kathleen Hall Jamieson and Kathleen Welch) have made similar predictions. I myself prefer a more nuanced critique of historically-resituated "corrosive visual technologies" when applicable (e.g., as offered by Paul Gilroy in his _Against Race: Imagining Political Culture Beyond the Color Line_). And I oppose all blanket assertions equating some monolithic cartography (even at its most geometric ;-) with an equally monolithic patriarchy. Rather, I prefer a style of rhetorical criticism that moves beyond the either/or posings of a Leonard Shlain (and a great many feminist scholars, besides) to both/and accommodations of dynamic complexity and interdependency. In this vein, I liked Jess Edwards' reconceptualization of the early-modern map as a poetic bridge between contemplative science and profitable craft, between abstraction and pragmatic use, between "propaedeutic" mathematics and practical or procedural mathematics. His article concludes: "When we think about the geometry that frames a modern map, we should see neither pure mathematical abstraction, nor a 'mere fantasy' concealing the material, political real. Instead, we should remind ourselves of the persuasive rhetoric that keeps the frame in place, dividing and hovering between the ideal abstraction of representation, and the dirty, pragmatic deals of the world, and encouraging us, as it encouraged its first users, to make analogies and slippages from one to the other. If a modern, critical history of cartography is tripping over itself in trying for the middle ground, and if it cannot make up its mind between materialism and the text, then it is simply yielding to the equivocal seduction of the early modern map." For those who are interested, the entire essay is available online: "How to Read an Early Modern Map: Between the Particular and the General, the Material and the Abstract, Words and Mathematics" By Jess Edwards published in _Early Modern Literary Studies_, vol. 9, no. 1 (May 2003) full text at Deborah _____ Deborah Taylor-Pearce dtp@she-philosopher.com _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: "J. B. Post" To: Subject: [MapHist] Fw: Query: circulation records: nineteenth-century Ireland Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 07:01:34 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.488 required=6.3 tests=[AWL=0.111, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Level: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joyce A. Post" To: Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 8:43 PM Subject: Fw: Query: circulation records: nineteenth-century Ireland > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Shelley Baranowski" > To: > Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 11:10 AM > Subject: Query: circulation records: nineteenth-century Ireland > > > > From: David Nally [dpnally@interchange.ubc.ca] > > > > Sent: Thu 6/23/2005 10:52 AM > > > > Subject: Query: circulation records > > > > > > > > Dear All > > > > > > > > I am conducting researching on 19th century Ireland. This involves > reading > > lots of travel books, political pamphlets, Blue Books etc. I am wondering > > if there is a database for finding the circulation records for some of > these > > > > texts: for example, how many editions a particular travel book went > through, > > and how many copies it sold? In some of the secondary literature I have > > noticed scholars cite this kind of information, but I have no idea how > they > > calculate it. > > > > > > > > My question is motivated (in part) by reading Gertrude Himmelfarb's "The > > Idea of Poverty." Regarding a number of texts -- some of which now seem > > obscure -- Himmelfarb is able to cite how many editions were printed, the > > number of copies sold, even publishing prices. Obviously, this is really > > helpful information in trying to assess the impact of particular views, > > ideologies, discourses etc. In general, though, it seems that there are > few > > resources for finding out how such texts circulated, were read, or > gathered > > dust in the printers-shed as the case may be. > > > > > > > > Any help with this would be greatly appreciated. > > > > > > > > David Nally > > > > > > > > -- > > > > David P. Nally > > > > PhD Candidate, Geography > > > > University of British Columbia > > > > _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-VirusChecked: Checked X-Env-Sender: Martin.Gammon@bonhams.com X-Msg-Ref: server-7.tower-77.messagelabs.com!1119650649!26169297!1 X-StarScan-Version: 5.4.15; banners=bonhams.com,-,- X-Originating-IP: [207.104.149.143] From: Martin Gammon To: "'maphist@geog.uu.nl'" Subject: [MapHist] Bonhams June 28 auction Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 15:05:06 -0700 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.997 required=6.3 tests=[AWL=0.475, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_50_60=0.087, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.039] X-Spam-Level: Bonhams June 28 auction

I wanted to apprise list members who may be interested in our forthcoming auction in San Francisco, which features a number of maps, including Henry Briggs The North Part of America. [L, 1625], and Eddy's first official map of CaliforniaDescriptions and images can be accessed online at the following link:

http://www.butterfields.com/cgi-bin/public.sh/pubweb/publicSite.r?sContinent=USA&screen=Catalogue&iSaleNo=12976&iEventNo=34021

The map lots are 3018-3030, and 3312-3314.

Thanks in advance for your interest.

Dr. Martin Gammon
Specialist, Books & Manuscripts
Bonhams & Butterfields
Phone: 415-503-3207
Fax: 415-503-3330


_____________________________________________________________________
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Perhaps it is time to re-read David Lodge's Small World.  ;-)


JBP,
As I understand the summary on the
list, Shlain contends writing is linear
and linear abstract thinking leads to
an ordered system which supports a
patriarchial system.

Back in 2001, we had a discussion about Shlain on another
list I belong to ... to which I contributed one of my usual,
prolix posts on the subject. ;-)

Suffice it to say, Shlain's own arguments participate in the
very linearity he critiques.

Despite his historical approach, Shlain's primary argument
is ahistorical, reliant as it is on the usual grand
generalizations about gender and cognition (e.g., describing
linear abstraction as a masculine trait, and holistic
visualization as its feminine obverse).

I wrote back in 2001, and will repeat now, that the
historical experience does not support such an unchanging
dualism across varying space-times.

FWIW, the more standard feminist argument about
visualization points to the increasing dominance of the
visual over other embodied ways of knowing, and with this,
its gradual reduction to yet another ahistorical
generalization, "the male gaze."

The "male gaze" (along with its companion "scientific gaze,"
and also, I suppose, the "cartographic gaze" ;-) is now
accepted shorthand for describing the analytic reasoning of
a disembodied, disengaged intellect ... hence, an
objectifying, dominating gaze ... hence, pornographic at its
core.

Shlain himself is less suspicious of the postmodern
ascendence of the visual than many feminist philosophers,
e.g., arguing in his popular _The Alphabet Versus the
Goddess: The Conflict Between Word and Image_ that

    "as visual orientation returns to prominence within
     society through film, television, and cyberspace,
       the status of women increases, soon to return to the
    equilibrium of the earliest human cultures."

Nor is he alone in this. Other feminist scholars (such as
Kathleen Hall Jamieson and Kathleen Welch) have made similar
predictions.

I myself prefer a more nuanced critique of
historically-resituated "corrosive visual technologies" when
applicable (e.g., as offered by Paul Gilroy in his _Against
Race: Imagining Political Culture Beyond the Color Line_).

And I oppose all blanket assertions equating some monolithic
cartography (even at its most geometric ;-) with an equally
monolithic patriarchy.

Rather, I prefer a style of rhetorical criticism that moves
beyond the either/or posings of a Leonard Shlain (and a
great many feminist scholars, besides) to both/and
accommodations of dynamic complexity and interdependency.

In this vein, I liked Jess Edwards' reconceptualization of
the early-modern map as a poetic bridge between
contemplative science and profitable craft, between
abstraction and pragmatic use, between "propaedeutic"
mathematics and practical or procedural mathematics.

His article concludes:

        "When we think about the geometry that frames a
    modern map, we should see neither pure mathematical
     abstraction, nor a 'mere fantasy' concealing the
        material, political real. Instead, we should remind
     ourselves of the persuasive rhetoric that keeps the
     frame in place, dividing and hovering between the
       ideal abstraction of representation, and the dirty,
     pragmatic deals of the world, and encouraging us, as
    it encouraged its first users, to make analogies and
    slippages from one to the other. If a modern,
   critical history of cartography is tripping over
        itself in trying for the middle ground, and if it
       cannot make up its mind between materialism and the
     text, then it is simply yielding to the equivocal
       seduction of the early modern map."

For those who are interested, the entire essay is available
online:

   "How to Read an Early Modern Map: Between the
   Particular and the General, the Material and the
        Abstract, Words and Mathematics"

        By Jess Edwards

published in _Early Modern Literary Studies_,
   vol. 9, no. 1 (May 2003)

        full text at
    <http://www.shu.ac.uk/emls/09-1/edwamaps.html>


Deborah
_____

Deborah Taylor-Pearce
dtp@she-philosopher.com











_______________________________________________________________
MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography
hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of
the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of
Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for
the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info

X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2005 06:26:18 +0100 From: Doug Weller To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: [MapHist] More on Menzies X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.028 required=6.3 tests=[AWL=0.475, BAYES_00=-2.599, PRIORITY_NO_NAME=1.097, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Level: Hi, http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/06/24/features/chinam.php "The site has just been surveyed by Cedric Bells, who has also worked on a New Zealand site believed to have Chinese junks. Bells has found canals, smelters, mines, Buddhist tombs, Islamic graves, barracks, all pointing to a very large settlement, Menzies said. "This site is unquestionably Chinese and unquestionably pre-European. I actually believe it's quite possible it was started by Kublai Khan and then further developed by Zheng He." "The exhibition shows copies of Kublai Khan's maps, recently found at the U.S. Library of Congress by an academic. The documents clearly show North America. Menzies said he believes the maps, which are currently being carbon-dated, are from the late 13th century. The exhibition also presents copies of Korean maps from the collection of Charlotte Rees, which she inherited from her father, a third-generation missionary born in China. Rees's maps date from the 16th century, but they are believed to be replicas of Chinese maps dating to 2200 B.C. Menzies believes Zheng would have known of these maps and hence how to reach the Americas - although he had to improve the charts, which contained longitudinal errors." Carbon extracted from one of the mines is now being carbon-dated, and there are plans to request permission from the Canadian government for DNA testing and carbon-dating to be made on the bones found in graves" Cedric Bell is a British amateur archaeologist, whose work in New Zealand was met more or less by derision. A discussion on his New Zealand work took place in sci.archaeology last year and is at http://tinyurl.com/cfc85 Gavin Menzies' Library of Congress presentation is here: http://www.marcopolovoyages.com/LibCongressPapers/GavinMenzies.doc and in HTML: http://tinyurl.com/c3h2z Gunnar Thompson, who thinks that King Arthur sent Welsh colonists to America, has gone into partnership with Menzies. He's put some other papers from the Library of Congress presentation on his website. http://www.marcopolovoyages.com/LibCongressPapers/papers.html -- Doug Weller Moderator, sci.archaeology.moderated Submissions to:sci-archaeology-moderated@medieval.org Doug's Archaeology Site: http://www.ramtops.co.uk Doug and Helen's Dogs: http://www.dougandhelen.com _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Sender: seaver@seaver.pobox.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2005 03:15:24 -0700 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: Paul Seaver Subject: Re: [MapHist] More on Menzies X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.6 required=6.3 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Level: Doug Weller has my thanks for his updating on the work and future ambitions of the Gavin Menzies "team." Forewarned is forearmed! Every time the "team"s PR machine clanks into action, experts in a number of fields have to spend much valuable time dealing with the media and in pointing out that the public deserves to be informed rather than systematically misinformed. In the case of the supposedly medieval Chinese settlement and naval fort which Paul Chiasson claimed to have discovered in the Cape Breton headlands, it needs noting that Canadian professional archaeologists with sound knowledge of the region and its archaeological remains have considered the site and dismissed the theories of Chiasson and Menzies, neither of whom has archaeological expertise. Had they had any, they would surely have been alarmed at the absolute lack of archaeological mementos of medieval Chinese voyagers anywhere in the Greenlandic and Canadian regions assumed to have played host to these intrepid sailors in quest of -- what??? Codfish??? Archaeologists in East Africa have had no problem tracking medieval Chinese trade in that region, thanks to thousands of shards from blue and white Ming porcelain. To members of this list, the cartographic "evidence" for medieval Chinese voyages to the New World speaks for itself. Some of you have probably also seen the two-hour documentary on "1421" (available through the PBS catalogue) which starts with a straightforward presentation of the Menzies view of early exploration and cartography, eventually interspersed with commentaries by experts in various fields, including early cartography, and ending with a session in which Menzies responds to some of their queries and critiques. That segment, too, speaks for itself. Best regards, Kirsten A. Seaver >Hi, > >http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/06/24/features/chinam.php > >"The site has just been surveyed by Cedric Bells, who has also worked on a >New Zealand site believed to have Chinese junks. Bells has found canals, >smelters, mines, Buddhist tombs, Islamic graves, barracks, all pointing to >a very large settlement, Menzies said. "This site is unquestionably >Chinese and unquestionably pre-European. I actually believe it's quite >possible it was started by Kublai Khan and then further developed by Zheng >He." > >"The exhibition shows copies of Kublai Khan's maps, recently found at the >U.S. Library of Congress by an academic. The documents clearly show >North America. Menzies said he believes the maps, which are currently >being carbon-dated, are from the late 13th century. > > >The exhibition also presents copies of Korean maps from the collection >of Charlotte Rees, which she inherited from her father, a >third-generation missionary born in China. Rees's maps date from the >16th century, but they are believed to be replicas of Chinese maps >dating to 2200 B.C. Menzies believes Zheng would have known of these >maps and hence how to reach the Americas - although he had to improve >the charts, which contained longitudinal errors." > >Carbon extracted from one of the mines is now being carbon-dated, and >there are plans to request permission from the Canadian government for DNA >testing and carbon-dating to be made on the bones found in graves" > >Cedric Bell is a British amateur archaeologist, whose work in New Zealand >was met more or less by derision. > >A discussion on his New Zealand work took place in sci.archaeology last >year and is at http://tinyurl.com/cfc85 > > >Gavin Menzies' Library of Congress presentation is here: >http://www.marcopolovoyages.com/LibCongressPapers/GavinMenzies.doc >and in HTML: >http://tinyurl.com/c3h2z > >Gunnar Thompson, who thinks that King Arthur sent Welsh colonists to >America, has gone into partnership with Menzies. > >He's put some other papers from the Library of Congress presentation on >his website. >http://www.marcopolovoyages.com/LibCongressPapers/papers.html > >-- >Doug Weller Moderator, sci.archaeology.moderated >Submissions to:sci-archaeology-moderated@medieval.org >Doug's Archaeology Site: http://www.ramtops.co.uk >Doug and Helen's Dogs: http://www.dougandhelen.com > >_______________________________________________________________ >MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography >hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. >The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of >the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of >Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for >the views of the author. >List Information: http://www.maphist.info -- _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.0.14 Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2005 20:17:41 +1000 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: Henny Savenije Subject: Re: [MapHist] More on Menzies X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.589 required=6.3 tests=[AWL=0.010, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Level: At the moment I am reading the book and I must admit, it reads like a good novel. And that's what it basically is, a good novel, with a lot of fantasy. After all John Blackthorne became more famous than Wil Adams. James Clavell was a good novelist but a bad historian. Probably Menzies will go the same way. Why do we bother? If the news media really want to cover a good story, they will inquire, if they just want to follow a charlatan, well ?? At 08:15 PM 6/26/2005, you wrote: >Doug Weller has my thanks for his updating on the work and future >ambitions of the Gavin Menzies "team." Forewarned is forearmed! Every >time the "team"s PR machine clanks into action, experts in a number of >fields have to spend much valuable time dealing with the media and in >pointing out that the public deserves to be informed rather than >systematically misinformed. > >In the case of the supposedly medieval Chinese settlement and naval fort >which Paul Chiasson claimed to have discovered in the Cape Breton >headlands, it needs noting that Canadian professional archaeologists with >sound knowledge of the region and its archaeological remains have >considered the site and dismissed the theories of Chiasson and Menzies, >neither of whom has archaeological expertise. Had they had any, they >would surely have been alarmed at the absolute lack of archaeological >mementos of medieval Chinese voyagers anywhere in the Greenlandic and >Canadian regions assumed to have played host to these intrepid sailors in >quest of -- what??? Codfish??? Archaeologists in East Africa have had no >problem tracking medieval Chinese trade in that region, thanks to >thousands of shards from blue and white Ming porcelain. > >To members of this list, the cartographic "evidence" for medieval Chinese >voyages to the New World speaks for itself. Some of you have probably >also seen the two-hour documentary on "1421" (available through the PBS >catalogue) which starts with a straightforward presentation of the Menzies >view of early exploration and cartography, eventually interspersed with >commentaries by experts in various fields, including early cartography, >and ending with a session in which Menzies responds to some of their >queries and critiques. That segment, too, speaks for itself. > >Best regards, > >Kirsten A. Seaver > >>Hi, >> >>http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/06/24/features/chinam.php >> >>"The site has just been surveyed by Cedric Bells, who has also worked on a >>New Zealand site believed to have Chinese junks. Bells has found canals, >>smelters, mines, Buddhist tombs, Islamic graves, barracks, all pointing to >>a very large settlement, Menzies said. "This site is unquestionably >>Chinese and unquestionably pre-European. I actually believe it's quite >>possible it was started by Kublai Khan and then further developed by Zheng >>He." >> >>"The exhibition shows copies of Kublai Khan's maps, recently found at the >>U.S. Library of Congress by an academic. The documents clearly show >>North America. Menzies said he believes the maps, which are currently >>being carbon-dated, are from the late 13th century. >> >> >>The exhibition also presents copies of Korean maps from the collection >>of Charlotte Rees, which she inherited from her father, a >>third-generation missionary born in China. Rees's maps date from the >>16th century, but they are believed to be replicas of Chinese maps >>dating to 2200 B.C. Menzies believes Zheng would have known of these >>maps and hence how to reach the Americas - although he had to improve >>the charts, which contained longitudinal errors." >> >>Carbon extracted from one of the mines is now being carbon-dated, and >>there are plans to request permission from the Canadian government for DNA >>testing and carbon-dating to be made on the bones found in graves" >> >>Cedric Bell is a British amateur archaeologist, whose work in New Zealand >>was met more or less by derision. >> >>A discussion on his New Zealand work took place in sci.archaeology last >>year and is at http://tinyurl.com/cfc85 >> >> >>Gavin Menzies' Library of Congress presentation is here: >>http://www.marcopolovoyages.com/LibCongressPapers/GavinMenzies.doc >>and in HTML: >>http://tinyurl.com/c3h2z >> >>Gunnar Thompson, who thinks that King Arthur sent Welsh colonists to >>America, has gone into partnership with Menzies. >> >>He's put some other papers from the Library of Congress presentation on >>his website. >>http://www.marcopolovoyages.com/LibCongressPapers/papers.html >> >>-- >>Doug Weller Moderator, sci.archaeology.moderated >>Submissions to:sci-archaeology-moderated@medieval.org >>Doug's Archaeology Site: http://www.ramtops.co.uk >>Doug and Helen's Dogs: http://www.dougandhelen.com >> >>_______________________________________________________________ >>MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography >>hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. >>The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of >>the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of >>Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for >>the views of the author. >>List Information: http://www.maphist.info > > >-- >_______________________________________________________________ >MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography >hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. >The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of >the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of >Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for >the views of the author. >List Information: http://www.maphist.info Henny (Lee Hae Kang) ----------------------------- http://www.henny-savenije.pe.kr Portal to all my sites http://www.hendrick-hamel.henny-savenije.pe.kr (in English) Feel free to discover Korea with Hendrick Hamel (1653-1666) http://www.hendrick-hamel.henny-savenije.pe.kr/indexk2.htm In Korean http://www.hendrick-hamel.henny-savenije.pe.kr/Dutch In Dutch http://www.vos.henny-savenije.pe.kr Frits Vos Article about Witsen and Eibokken and his first Korean-Dutch dictionary http://www.cartography.henny-savenije.pe.kr (in English) Korea through Western Cartographic eyes http://www.hwasong.henny-savenije.pe.kr Hwasong the fortress in Suwon http://www.oldKorea.henny-savenije.pe.kr Old Korea in pictures http://www.british.henny-savenije.pe.kr A British encounter in Pusan (1797) http://www.genealogy.henny-savenije.pe.kr/index.htm Genealogy http://www.henny-savenije.pe.kr/bboard Bulletin board for Korean studies _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: Philippe Forêt Subject: Re: [MapHist] More on Menzies Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2005 20:07:31 +0200 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.622) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.299 required=6.3 tests=[AWL=1.300, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Level: ArialDear MapHisters, The largely legendary Xia dynasty ruled parts of the Yellow River valley from 2207 to 1766 BCE (dates may vary). No written record or map from that period has survived, probably just because no writing system existed. The 16th century Korean cartographers who claimed their maps were replicas of 3,800 years old originals were maybe too anxious to sell their products at inflated prices. That Gavin Menzies believes Zheng He would have known of these maps is funny since the Chinese admiral was dead by the time the Korean maps were made. I am curious to see how Gavin Menzies will explain why the mythic emperor Yu, who after all had been able to control the Great Flood, would have made mistakes in something much simpler -- the correct longitudes of California and Florida! Best regards, Philippe Forêt Philippe Forêt, Ph.D. Research Associate, Institute of Cartography Swiss Federal Institute of Technology, Zurich ETH-Hönggerberg, 8093 Zürich, Switzerland http://www.karto.ethz.ch/ Phone: +41 1 311 2757 (direct) Email: pforet@bluewin.ch The exhibition also presents copies of Korean maps from the collection of Charlotte Rees, which she inherited from her father, a third-generation missionary born in China. Rees's maps date from the 16th century, but they are believed to be replicas of Chinese maps dating to 2200 B.C. Menzies believes Zheng would have known of these maps and hence how to reach the Americas - although he had to improve the charts, which contained longitudinal errors." X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.0.14 Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 10:53:22 +1000 To: "maphist-geog.uu.nl" From: Henny Savenije Subject: [MapHist] Neat map X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.594 required=6.3 tests=[AWL=0.005, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Level: A very helpful tool and map http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/BirthplaceMaps/Places/Garrelsweer.html Henny (Lee Hae Kang) ----------------------------- http://www.henny-savenije.pe.kr Portal to all my sites http://www.hendrick-hamel.henny-savenije.pe.kr (in English) Feel free to discover Korea with Hendrick Hamel (1653-1666) http://www.hendrick-hamel.henny-savenije.pe.kr/indexk2.htm In Korean http://www.hendrick-hamel.henny-savenije.pe.kr/Dutch In Dutch http://www.vos.henny-savenije.pe.kr Frits Vos Article about Witsen and Eibokken and his first Korean-Dutch dictionary http://www.cartography.henny-savenije.pe.kr (in English) Korea through Western Cartographic eyes http://www.hwasong.henny-savenije.pe.kr Hwasong the fortress in Suwon http://www.oldKorea.henny-savenije.pe.kr Old Korea in pictures http://www.british.henny-savenije.pe.kr A British encounter in Pusan (1797) http://www.genealogy.henny-savenije.pe.kr/index.htm Genealogy http://www.henny-savenije.pe.kr/bboard Bulletin board for Korean studies _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: "tony campbell" To: "*MapHist" Subject: [MapHist] Two map titles up for the ILAB-LILA Bibliographical Prize Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 15:34:05 +0100 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.58 required=6.3 tests=[AWL=0.019, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Level: It is good news that two history of cartography titles have been nominated for the highly prestigious $10,000 Bibliographical Prize, offered every four years by the International League of Antiquarian Booksellers: * Peter van der Krogt's entirely revised edition of the third volume of Koeman's Atlantes Neerlandici (this volume dealing with Low Countries atlases up to 1650 including Ortelius, etc.) * Rodney Shirley's Maps in the Atlases of the British Library c.850-1800 For the full list of nominations, see < http://www.ilab-lila.com/english/prize.htm >. The 'long' list for this 14th award is first reduced to a short list and then the winner is announced next year. Tony Campbell t.campbell@ockendon.clara.co.uk -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.2/29 - Release Date: 27/06/2005 _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Sender: vanderkr18@mail.vanderkrogt.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.2.0 Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 17:02:53 +0200 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: Peter van der Krogt Subject: Re: [MapHist] Two map titles up for the ILAB-LILA Bibliographical Prize Cc: rmkilgarriff@btinternet.com X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS-perl11-milter (http://amavis.org/) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.582 required=6.3 tests=[AWL=0.017, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Level: Thanks, Tony, for mentioning this nomination to MapHist. I have asked the ILAB organisation to alter the text into "Peter van der Krogt's third volume of Koeman's Atlantes Neerlandici (....)", since the present text suggests it is "just" a revision of Koeman's earlier work (moreover, "my" volume three has no relation with Koeman's volume three). Ten years ago, it seemed a good idea to give my new bibliography the title "Koeman's Atlantes Neerlandici" - but this title has caused a lot of misunderstanding, since libraries list it under Koeman as the author, thinking it is a revised edition, just as a lot of other people think. But it is not, it is a completely new edition with hardly any similarity to the Atlantes Neerlandici as published by Koeman 1967-71. The only similatity is the subject and the title. And, my congratulations to Rodney Shirley for the nomination of his book! Peter van der Krogt At 16:34 28-6-2005, you wrote: >It is good news that two history of cartography titles have been nominated >for the highly prestigious $10,000 Bibliographical Prize, offered every four >years by the International League of Antiquarian Booksellers: > >* Peter van der Krogt's entirely revised edition of the third volume of >Koeman's Atlantes Neerlandici (this volume dealing with Low Countries >atlases up to 1650 including Ortelius, etc.) > >* Rodney Shirley's Maps in the Atlases of the British Library c.850-1800 > >For the full list of nominations, see < >http://www.ilab-lila.com/english/prize.htm >. The 'long' list for this >14th award is first reduced to a short list and then the winner is announced >next year. > >Tony Campbell > >t.campbell@ockendon.clara.co.uk > > > >-- >No virus found in this outgoing message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.2/29 - Release Date: 27/06/2005 > >_______________________________________________________________ >MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography >hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. >The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of >the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of >Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for >the views of the author. >List Information: http://www.maphist.info YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY Dr Peter van der Krogt Map Historian, Explokart Research Program Faculty of Geo-sciences, University of Utrecht P.O. Box 80.115 3508 TC UTRECHT, The Netherlands e-mail: peter@vanderkrogt.net Homepage: MapHist: Genealogy: Elementymology: Columbus Monuments: YYYYYYYYYYYYYYY PER ANGUSTA AD AUGUSTA YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 13:29:52 -0800 From: Dee Longenbaugh Subject: Re: [MapHist] Two map titles up for the ILAB-LILA Bibliographical Prize To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.525 required=6.3 tests=[AWL=0.075, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Level: Congratulations to both talented and hard-working cartographic experts! Dee >It is good news that two history of cartography titles have been nominated >for the highly prestigious $10,000 Bibliographical Prize, offered every four >years by the International League of Antiquarian Booksellers: > >* Peter van der Krogt's entirely revised edition of the third volume of >Koeman's Atlantes Neerlandici (this volume dealing with Low Countries >atlases up to 1650 including Ortelius, etc.) > >* Rodney Shirley's Maps in the Atlases of the British Library c.850-1800 > >For the full list of nominations, see < >http://www.ilab-lila.com/english/prize.htm >. The 'long' list for this >14th award is first reduced to a short list and then the winner is announced >next year. > >Tony Campbell > >t.campbell@ockendon.clara.co.uk > > >-- -- We cannot comprehend all the dust motes in the universe The Observatory, ABAA Since 1977 200 North Franklin Street Juneau, Alaska 99801 907/586-9676 deelong@alaska.com http://www.observatorybooks.com _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 23:37:18 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [MapHist] A remarkable theft From: brink@geog.uu.nl To: maphist@geog.uu.nl User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a X-Mailer: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-5.744 required=6.3 tests=[ALL_TRUSTED=-3.3, AWL=0.148, BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_REAL_NAME=0.007] X-Spam-Level: L.s. From a friend in the UK I received this recent article on a theft of rare books and manuscripts from the Bibliotheque Nationale. Because of its significance to mapcurating in general I decided to put forward it to this list. Because it is illegal and even punishable in the Netherlands to publish the names of possible suspects, I have deleted the name of the person and replaced it by "the curator" Dr. Paul van den Brink Explokart Research Team University of Utrecht The Netherlands Curator is charged as 30,000 books are 'lost' by French national library From The Independent By John Lichfield inParis 28 June 2005 More than 30,000 books, including 1,000 rare and priceless items, are believed to have been stolen from the French national library inParis. So chaotic are the library's cataloguing and security systems it is impossible to know when books were stolen. Some may have been "lost" in an institution that houses 35 million objects. But a year-long investigation by the president of the Bibliothèque Nationale de France (BNF) found the library had been systematically pillaged over many years. A former senior curator of the library will appear before an investigating magistrate today accused of stealing at least 100 rare old books and manuscripts. (The curator), an internationally known expert on Hebrew texts, initially admitted stealing a 13th-century French copy of the Pentateuch (the first five books of the Old Testament). The document - known only as "Manu-script 52" - was sold to a British collector for €80,000 (£52,000) five years ago. It was recognised as belonging to the French national collection when offered for sale by Christie's inNew York a few weeks later. In an interview with the newspaper Le Figaro yesterday, (the curator) said he had confessed under duress. He denied stealing anything from the BNF and accused its administrators of making him a "scapegoat" for their own incompetence. (The curator) said he had warned his bosses over many years that rare items were going missing. The basement of the library's old building, in the first arrondissement in centralParis, was connected by a labyrinth of underground passageways to nearby antiquarian bookshops, he said. "Personally, I have located four places you could get into the library without any problem, before pilfering at will," he said. Whatever the rights and wrongs of (the curators) case, an audit of the library's stocks, the first for many years, suggests that at least 30,000 books or manuscripts are missing. Many of these are relatively valueless copies of 19th- and 20th-century works of literature or history. The BNF, like the British Library inLondon, is given a copy of every book published in France. More disturbingly, 1,183 priceless books or documents from the library's "precious core" cannot be traced. More than 200 of these are medieval manuscripts or books from the dawn of the age of printing. Agnès Saal, director general of the library, said: "It is very difficult to establish when these items disappeared. We are outraged but not especially surprised. Some of them come from collections that have not been checked for many years. There used to be an ostrich policy here, but that is not acceptable any more. You have to admit to what has been lost." In 1996, the library moved to a new home, the Bibliothèque François Mitterrand, beside theSeine in eastern Paris. Security is now said to have been greatly tightened. But many ancient texts and manuscripts are still stored in the original building in central Paris. The theft of ancient books from public libraries is a worldwide problem. Libraries are vulnerable to attack because they see it as their duty to make texts available to genuine scholars. (The Curator) is accused of selling ancient manuscripts and books to a British-Israeli dealer named only as "D S". In a statement to French investigators, D S said he had paid (the curator) $500,000 (£273,000). He denied knowing the treasures were stolen. Part of the case against (the curator) has collapsed because there was no sworn and licensed interpreter present when D S gave evidence. The dealer has been interviewed a second time. The curator said yesterday: "I have proclaimed my innocence from the first day they put handcuffs on me. I am the perfect scapegoat because of the poor relations I have had with my superiors for years. I have never accepted a centime for anything belonging to the BNF or any other public collection." _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-IronPort-AV: i="3.93,239,1115006400"; d="scan'208,217"; a="52902837:sNHT32520768" X-Sender: sanderva@pop.erols.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.1.1 Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 18:36:35 -0400 To: From: SHD Web Subject: [MapHist] Society for the History of Discoveries - Annual Meeting - Papers and Speakers X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.492 required=6.3 tests=[AWL=0.046, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_30_40=0.021, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.039] X-Spam-Level: The Society for the History of Discoveries (SHD) is holding its 46th Annual Meeting in Colonial Williamsburg and Newport News, Virginia, from October 6-8, 2005.
 
1. SHD MEETING PAPER SESSIONS – NAMES & TOPICS.
Now at http://www.sochistdisc.org/annual_meetings/annual_2005/annual_meeting_2005.htm you will find the entire program, including the names and titles of all the papers that will be delivered. 
 
2.  SHD MEETING REGISTRATION.
Register now for the SHD Meeting.  The registration fee increases for all mailings postmarked September 1 or later.  See the meeting website at http://www.sochistdisc.org/annual_meetings/annual_2005/annual_meeting_2005.htm for a downloadable registration form.

3.  SHD 2005 ESSAY CONTEST.
Carol Urness reports that the 2005 winner of the SHD writing contest is Alice Storey, for her paper "Layers of Discovery: Exploration and Innovation in Oceania."  Alice is a student in Anthropology at the University of Auckland, New Zealand.

4.  The symposium "Mapping Colonial America" has been organized by Colonial Williamsburg from October 4-6, 2005, the several days immediately prior to the SHD Meeting. Information about that symposium, including registration details, is linked at the meeting website noted above. 
 
Regards,
 
Tom Sander

***************************************************
Thomas F. Sander
SHD Web Content Manager
P.O. Box 10793
Burke, VA  22009-0793  USA

Tel:  703-426-2880              Fax:  703-426-2881
E-Mail:  sanderva@erols.com     Web:  www.sochistdisc.org

excuse cross posting

X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: overlee@verizon.net To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: [MapHist] NYTimes.com: Online Maps That Steer You Wrong X-Originating-IP: [70.109.234.34] X-Initiated-By: [nytimes.com website user] Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 02:22:54 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.586 required=6.3 tests=[AWL=-0.030, BAYES_05=-0.413, HTML_80_90=0.146, HTML_FONT_BIG=0.142, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MSGID_FROM_MTA_ID=1.723, NO_REAL_NAME=0.007, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, URI_REDIRECTOR=0.011] X-Spam-Level: * E-Mail This
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Oh for a return of the free road maps from the gasoline stations!

TECHNOLOGY   | June 28, 2005
Sounding Off:  Online Maps That Steer You Wrong
By CHRISTOPHER ELLIOTT
As increasing numbers of travelers come to rely on Web sites for directions, they are discovering that computer maps can sometimes lead them astray.


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X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: "Schulenburg, Alexander" To: "'maphist@geog.uu.nl'" Subject: RE: [MapHist] A remarkable theft Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 08:30:12 +0100 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.45 required=6.3 tests=[AWL=0.149, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Level: However sad this story is, I think this bit has potential for developing into a novel: "The basement of the library's old building, in the first arrondissement in central Paris, was connected by a labyrinth of underground passageways to nearby antiquarian bookshops". Alexander Schulenburg -----Original Message----- From: brink@geog.uu.nl [mailto:brink@geog.uu.nl] Sent: 28 June 2005 22:37 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: [MapHist] A remarkable theft L.s. From a friend in the UK I received this recent article on a theft of rare books and manuscripts from the Bibliotheque Nationale. Because of its significance to mapcurating in general I decided to put forward it to this list. Because it is illegal and even punishable in the Netherlands to publish the names of possible suspects, I have deleted the name of the person and replaced it by "the curator" Dr. Paul van den Brink Explokart Research Team University of Utrecht The Netherlands Curator is charged as 30,000 books are 'lost' by French national library From The Independent By John Lichfield inParis 28 June 2005 More than 30,000 books, including 1,000 rare and priceless items, are believed to have been stolen from the French national library inParis. So chaotic are the library's cataloguing and security systems it is impossible to know when books were stolen. Some may have been "lost" in an institution that houses 35 million objects. But a year-long investigation by the president of the Bibliothèque Nationale de France (BNF) found the library had been systematically pillaged over many years. A former senior curator of the library will appear before an investigating magistrate today accused of stealing at least 100 rare old books and manuscripts. (The curator), an internationally known expert on Hebrew texts, initially admitted stealing a 13th-century French copy of the Pentateuch (the first five books of the Old Testament). The document - known only as "Manu-script 52" - was sold to a British collector for EUR80,000 (£52,000) five years ago. It was recognised as belonging to the French national collection when offered for sale by Christie's inNew York a few weeks later. In an interview with the newspaper Le Figaro yesterday, (the curator) said he had confessed under duress. He denied stealing anything from the BNF and accused its administrators of making him a "scapegoat" for their own incompetence. (The curator) said he had warned his bosses over many years that rare items were going missing. The basement of the library's old building, in the first arrondissement in centralParis, was connected by a labyrinth of underground passageways to nearby antiquarian bookshops, he said. "Personally, I have located four places you could get into the library without any problem, before pilfering at will," he said. Whatever the rights and wrongs of (the curators) case, an audit of the library's stocks, the first for many years, suggests that at least 30,000 books or manuscripts are missing. Many of these are relatively valueless copies of 19th- and 20th-century works of literature or history. The BNF, like the British Library inLondon, is given a copy of every book published in France. More disturbingly, 1,183 priceless books or documents from the library's "precious core" cannot be traced. More than 200 of these are medieval manuscripts or books from the dawn of the age of printing. Agnès Saal, director general of the library, said: "It is very difficult to establish when these items disappeared. We are outraged but not especially surprised. Some of them come from collections that have not been checked for many years. There used to be an ostrich policy here, but that is not acceptable any more. You have to admit to what has been lost." In 1996, the library moved to a new home, the Bibliothèque François Mitterrand, beside theSeine in eastern Paris. Security is now said to have been greatly tightened. But many ancient texts and manuscripts are still stored in the original building in central Paris. The theft of ancient books from public libraries is a worldwide problem. Libraries are vulnerable to attack because they see it as their duty to make texts available to genuine scholars. (The Curator) is accused of selling ancient manuscripts and books to a British-Israeli dealer named only as "D S". In a statement to French investigators, D S said he had paid (the curator) $500,000 (£273,000). He denied knowing the treasures were stolen. Part of the case against (the curator) has collapsed because there was no sworn and licensed interpreter present when D S gave evidence. The dealer has been interviewed a second time. The curator said yesterday: "I have proclaimed my innocence from the first day they put handcuffs on me. I am the perfect scapegoat because of the poor relations I have had with my superiors for years. I have never accepted a centime for anything belonging to the BNF or any other public collection." _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info THIS E-MAIL AND ANY ATTACHED FILES ARE CONFIDENTIAL AND MAY BE LEGALLY PRIVILEGED. If you are not the addressee, any disclosure, reproduction, copying, distribution or other dissemination or use of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error please notify the sender immediately and then delete this e-mail. Opinions, advice or facts included in this message are given without any warranties or intention to enter into a contractual relationship with the Corporation of London unless specifically indicated otherwise by agreement, letter or facsimile signed by an authorised signatory of the Corporation. Any part of this e-mail which is purely personal in nature is not authorised by the Corporation of London. All e-mail through the Corporation's gateway is potentially the subject of monitoring. All liability for errors and viruses is excluded. Website: http://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: "Dr. Hanno V. J. KOLBE" To: Subject: Re: [MapHist] A remarkable theft (underground passages) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 09:55:06 +0200 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-AV-Checked: clean on smtp.evc.net X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.081 required=6.3 tests=[AWL=0.518, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Level: Bonjour, >>"The basement of the library's old building, in the first arrondissement >>in central Paris, was connected by a labyrinth of underground passageways to nearby antiquarian bookshops". Never heard of the Catacombes de Paris ? [http://cata.riffzone.net/]. ...with tour guide... and sounds .. about 300 km passage ways under the city. Should be interesting to have a map of those.... Greetings Dr. Hanno V. J. Kolbe 6, rue des Tuiliers F-67204 Achenheim/Alsace France/Old Europe _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Originating-IP: 4.249.18.176 X-URL: http://mail2web.com/ From: "mandraki@erols.com" To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 05:57:51 -0400 Subject: RE: [MapHist] NYTimes.com: Online Maps That Steer You Wrong X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.463 required=6.3 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.039, PRIORITY_NO_NAME=1.097] X-Spam-Level: Mr Elliott's article is quite correct. I seldom use on-line maps any more for anything other than a general look at a portion of territory or a section of a city. Too often they take you 500 miles accurately and then go wrong in the last mile or two. One took me to the loading dock of a shopping center (real desination about 3/4 mile away). Another took us down a dead end road that ended at a river bank (real destination about 1.5 miles away). A good local printed map is preferable every time. Original Message: ----------------- From: overlee@verizon.net Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 02:22:54 +0200 (CEST) To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: [MapHist] NYTimes.com: Online Maps That Steer You Wrong This page was sent to you by: overlee@verizon.net. Oh for a return of the free road maps from the gasoline stations! TECHNOLOGY | June 28, 2005 Sounding Off: Online Maps That Steer You Wrong By CHRISTOPHER ELLIOTT As increasing numbers of travelers come to rely on Web sites for directions, they are discovering that computer maps can sometimes lead them astray. http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/technology/28soff.html?ex=1120622400&en=86 a6f1fd8c5fc487&ei=5070&emc=eta1 ----------------- Advertisement -------------------------- /--------- E-mail Sponsored by Fox Searchlight Pictures ------------\ Watch the teaser trailer now for ROLL BOUNCE - in theaters September 23 In the late 70s when roller skating was a way of life, X (Bow Wow) and his pals ruled supreme. But when the doors of their local skating rink close, it marks the end of an era and the beginning of another that sees the boys venture into foreign territory - uptown’s Sweetwater Roller Rink, complete with its over-the-top skaters and beautiful girls. http://www.foxsearchlight.com/rollbounce/index_nyt.html ----------------- Advertisement -------------------------- 0 ---------------------------------------------------------- ABOUT THIS E-MAIL This e-mail was sent to you by a friend through NYTimes.com's E-mail This Article service. For general information about NYTimes.com, write to help@nytimes.com. NYTimes.com 500 Seventh Avenue New York, NY 10018 Copyright 2005 The New York Times Company -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: "J. B. Post" To: Subject: Re: [MapHist] A remarkable theft Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 08:06:46 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.404 required=6.3 tests=[AWL=0.188, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.007] X-Spam-Level: Hmm, could this traffic be two-way and the library increase its holdings? JBP ----- Original Message ----- From: "Schulenburg, Alexander" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 3:30 AM Subject: RE: [MapHist] A remarkable theft However sad this story is, I think this bit has potential for developing into a novel: "The basement of the library's old building, in the first arrondissement in central Paris, was connected by a labyrinth of underground passageways to nearby antiquarian bookshops". Alexander Schulenburg -----Original Message----- From: brink@geog.uu.nl [mailto:brink@geog.uu.nl] Sent: 28 June 2005 22:37 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: [MapHist] A remarkable theft L.s. From a friend in the UK I received this recent article on a theft of rare books and manuscripts from the Bibliotheque Nationale. Because of its significance to mapcurating in general I decided to put forward it to this list. Because it is illegal and even punishable in the Netherlands to publish the names of possible suspects, I have deleted the name of the person and replaced it by "the curator" Dr. Paul van den Brink Explokart Research Team University of Utrecht The Netherlands Curator is charged as 30,000 books are 'lost' by French national library From The Independent By John Lichfield inParis 28 June 2005 More than 30,000 books, including 1,000 rare and priceless items, are believed to have been stolen from the French national library inParis. So chaotic are the library's cataloguing and security systems it is impossible to know when books were stolen. Some may have been "lost" in an institution that houses 35 million objects. But a year-long investigation by the president of the Bibliothèque Nationale de France (BNF) found the library had been systematically pillaged over many years. A former senior curator of the library will appear before an investigating magistrate today accused of stealing at least 100 rare old books and manuscripts. (The curator), an internationally known expert on Hebrew texts, initially admitted stealing a 13th-century French copy of the Pentateuch (the first five books of the Old Testament). The document - known only as "Manu-script 52" - was sold to a British collector for EUR80,000 (£52,000) five years ago. It was recognised as belonging to the French national collection when offered for sale by Christie's inNew York a few weeks later. In an interview with the newspaper Le Figaro yesterday, (the curator) said he had confessed under duress. He denied stealing anything from the BNF and accused its administrators of making him a "scapegoat" for their own incompetence. (The curator) said he had warned his bosses over many years that rare items were going missing. The basement of the library's old building, in the first arrondissement in centralParis, was connected by a labyrinth of underground passageways to nearby antiquarian bookshops, he said. "Personally, I have located four places you could get into the library without any problem, before pilfering at will," he said. Whatever the rights and wrongs of (the curators) case, an audit of the library's stocks, the first for many years, suggests that at least 30,000 books or manuscripts are missing. Many of these are relatively valueless copies of 19th- and 20th-century works of literature or history. The BNF, like the British Library inLondon, is given a copy of every book published in France. More disturbingly, 1,183 priceless books or documents from the library's "precious core" cannot be traced. More than 200 of these are medieval manuscripts or books from the dawn of the age of printing. Agnès Saal, director general of the library, said: "It is very difficult to establish when these items disappeared. We are outraged but not especially surprised. Some of them come from collections that have not been checked for many years. There used to be an ostrich policy here, but that is not acceptable any more. You have to admit to what has been lost." In 1996, the library moved to a new home, the Bibliothèque François Mitterrand, beside theSeine in eastern Paris. Security is now said to have been greatly tightened. But many ancient texts and manuscripts are still stored in the original building in central Paris. The theft of ancient books from public libraries is a worldwide problem. Libraries are vulnerable to attack because they see it as their duty to make texts available to genuine scholars. (The Curator) is accused of selling ancient manuscripts and books to a British-Israeli dealer named only as "D S". In a statement to French investigators, D S said he had paid (the curator) $500,000 (£273,000). He denied knowing the treasures were stolen. Part of the case against (the curator) has collapsed because there was no sworn and licensed interpreter present when D S gave evidence. The dealer has been interviewed a second time. The curator said yesterday: "I have proclaimed my innocence from the first day they put handcuffs on me. I am the perfect scapegoat because of the poor relations I have had with my superiors for years. I have never accepted a centime for anything belonging to the BNF or any other public collection." _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info THIS E-MAIL AND ANY ATTACHED FILES ARE CONFIDENTIAL AND MAY BE LEGALLY PRIVILEGED. If you are not the addressee, any disclosure, reproduction, copying, distribution or other dissemination or use of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error please notify the sender immediately and then delete this e-mail. Opinions, advice or facts included in this message are given without any warranties or intention to enter into a contractual relationship with the Corporation of London unless specifically indicated otherwise by agreement, letter or facsimile signed by an authorised signatory of the Corporation. Any part of this e-mail which is purely personal in nature is not authorised by the Corporation of London. All e-mail through the Corporation's gateway is potentially the subject of monitoring. All liability for errors and viruses is excluded. Website: http://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: Dh98pr6@cs.com Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 10:10:46 EDT Subject: Re: [MapHist] A remarkable theft To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 8001 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.171 required=6.3 tests=[AWL=1.361, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_30_40=0.021, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.039, NO_REAL_NAME=0.007, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Level: In a message dated 6/29/2005 7:56:02 AM Eastern Standard Time, jbpost@netreach.net writes:

However sad this story is, I think this bit has potential for developing
into a novel:

"The basement of the library's old building, in the first arrondissement in
central Paris, was connected by a labyrinth of underground passageways to
nearby antiquarian bookshops".

Alexander Schulenburg


And each bookshop is in a separate dimension of history or reality. Paging Eco, Calvino, Fuentes.

Henry Sirotin
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Sender: maphist15@mail.maphist.nl X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.2.0 Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 21:01:24 +0200 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl (by way of List-owner MapHist ) Subject: [MapHist] MapRef X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.324 required=6.3 tests=[AWL=0.275, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Level: Non-member submission from ["Andropov" ] Dear List Members, I have recently updated MapRef. The list now contains 91 entries on non-printed reference material on the subject of historical cartography. If you know of any sources which have not yet been listed, I would very much appreciate if you could inform me. Boudewijn MapRef _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Sender: maphist15@mail.maphist.nl X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.2.0 Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 21:16:08 +0200 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: List-owner MapHist Subject: [MapHist] List-owner's message: addresses removed X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.598 required=6.3 tests=[AWL=0.001, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Level: Because of error messages for a long time, the following e-mail addresses are removed from the maphist list: (e-mail, reason, date of 1st failure) keithp@mail.minn.net : User mailbox exceeds allowed size (was subscribed as keithp@MINN.NET) (18 June) jamespeterson@earthlink.net: User unknown (4 May) joehart@uswest.net: Disk Quota Exceeded. (19 May) carlaml@ciudad.com.ar: Sorry, no mailbox here by that name. (3 June) heppibiblio@hotmail.com: recipient's mailbox is full (25 May) If somebody knows the owner of (one of) these e-mail addresses, please inform him or her that they have to re-s*bscribe maphist with a working e-mail address. Thanks Peter van der Krogt List-owner MapHist List-info: http://www.maphist.nl Peter van der Krogt List-owner MapHist List-info: http://www.maphist.nl _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Sender: maphist15@mail.maphist.nl X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.2.0 Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 15:42:15 +0200 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl (by way of List-owner MapHist ) Subject: [MapHist] Medieval cartography panel at Kalamazoo X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.737 required=6.3 tests=[AWL=1.862, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Level: Non-member submission from ["Evelyn Edson" ] (and it had an attachment, two reasons why it was not distributed automatically) I have been asked by AVISTA (Association Villard de Honnecourt for = Interdisciplinary Study of Medieval Technology, Science and Art) to put = together a panel on medieval cartography for the conference at Kalamazoo = in May 2006. The organizers expressed an interest in either travel and = maps, or Islamic and Christian maps. The organization has a definite = technical bent, so any paper which looks at technology would be of = special interest. Please contact me if you are interested in taking = part. I will be in Budapest (staying at the Hotel Sissi), so you may = talk to me there. I need abstracts by early August. =20 Evelyn Edson Professor of History Piedmont Virginia Community College 501 College Drive Charlottesville, VA 22902 U.S.A. (434) 961-5384 _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info